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Self named National Coach of the Year by peers

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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7513 by konza63
It's his first time receiving this award.

kuathletics.com/news/2016/3/30/mens-bask...m_content=1459342487

Congrats, Coach Self!

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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8 years 7 months ago #7514 by LSHawk
I was just beginning to make peace with another post season meltdown. But, this gets me going again. Why do "we" win everything BUT a national championship?

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8 years 7 months ago #7517 by konza63
Well, we won an NC 8 years ago.

That may seem like an eternity when we're trying to compete with bluebloods (UNC, UK, Duke) that win it more frequently. The flip side, however, is you could be a Michigan State fan (with Izzo, who gets a lot of positive ink) and be even more dejected--no NC since 2000, and the last one before that in 1979.

We have to do better, relative to our elite peer competitors...but we're not chopped liver, either.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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8 years 7 months ago #7520 by HawkErrant
Congrats indeed! I'm sure that for him even more than for us it is a little bittersweet, but nonetheless it is always a wonderful thing when your peers recognize you for the work you have done.

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8 years 7 months ago #7522 by replayloungehawk
So it's a post season meltdown because of the 1 in front of Kansas during the tourney? It doesn't matter that they made it to the final of their bracket? It doesn't matter than Nova lost one more game all year than KU did and spent several weeks at #1 in the nation? It doesn't matter that everyone knows Nova was the toughest #2 seed in any bracket and really probably should have been a #1 seed?

Somehow if we make it to the Final Four...just one more game we would have been successful?

Whatever. Congratulations to coach Self on getting a team to come together and make a heck of a run. I'm happy with KU basketball. I'm not going to focus on National Championships...No matter what a team does it's NEVER good enough. Fans and media will find something to cry about.
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8 years 7 months ago #7526 by JRhawk
Good for you. However, I am focusing on Final Fours and National Championships. When KU is the #1 seed overall, achieving less is unacceptable.
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8 years 7 months ago #7527 by LSHawk
This year, making it to the FF would have been great, but I still would have expected a NC.

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8 years 7 months ago #7528 by CorpusJayhawk
Replay, I absolutely know you did not direct your post at anyone in particular. However, I feel compelled to set the record straight for at the very least me, but also for what I perceive represents others as well. Do I think we unerachieved in the tourney? You betcha I do. Am I disappointed? You betcha I am. So does that necessarily mean I am disappointed in the entire season? Not in any way shape or form. I loved this season and I am thrilled at the many great accomplishments. It was a helluva run with some outstanding accomplishments. In fact I have listed them seriatim in other posts. So your conflation that dissatisfaction with the post season means dissatisfaction with the entire season is a complete non-sequitor. I am completely fine with people who are not upset with the loss to Villanova. In fact, I wish I could have such applomb. But I don't. I want to win each and every game. I don't ever ever ever want to lose, ever! And Getting to the tourney as a no 1 overall seed is good enough for the regular season. In fact it couldn't be better. But when we got the No. 1 seed I am not one that can say "okay, whatever happens from here on out is just icing on the cake". For me every game is the entire freaking cake. I want my cake and icing too each and every game. And when we lose I don't hate KU or I don't hate Self or any of the players any more than before the game started. Once again, I wish I could whistle my way to happiness after a loss and I sort of envy those like you who do. That would certainly be better for my blood pressure. When we lose I cope by examining the crap out of it and pontificating and calculating and statifying. It is just my thing. And it is Konza's thing to write amazing tomes in brilliant streams of consciousness. And it is Senex's thing to torture himself by rewatching the game to break it down like no one else. And it is HawkErrant's thing to strap on his zebra shirt after losses and referee all the differing opinions on the board (and he does a mighty fine job, may I add) I get that it is your thing to settle your mind and look for satisfaction in the great accomplishments and not dwell on the losses. That may actually be better than my coping mechanism. But cut me and others who cope in our own way the lattitude to do so without ascribing thoughts and feelings we do not have. Lord knows between the RCC and the RCB I spend countless hours and mucho mula to indulge this passion and believe me, I milk the joy to the last drop. Between the 90 minute Josh, David, Bob and Greg pregame radio show, the game itself, the 60 minute postgame radio show and the roughly 2-3 hours charting plays, the +/- data, downloading the box score, doing the NEP analysis, doing the DPPI and sending out my RCC email and analysis a Jayhawk game usually ends up being an 8-10 hour joy ride for me. I will never say I derive more joy from KU hoops than any other KU fan because we all do in our own way. But please understand that my hyper analysis of the losses and the tourney losses in particular does not mean I don't milk every last drop of enjoyment out of the amazing things that Self and this program accomplish. While it may be different than how others process their fandon, I can at the same time be filled with great elation at the amazing consistent and second to none success yet be concerned and unhappy about the mediocrity that is our post-season record. I just want to make sure to set the record straight on this.

Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7530 by konza63

Somehow if we make it to the Final Four...just one more game we would have been successful?


We would've gone from a very good season to a great one.

But let's not use any fan's standards, let's apply the standard that Self himself put forth this season, and reiterated time and again down the stretch. He said the Big 12 title and tourney crown were great accomplishments, but for the season to be "special" (his oft-used phrase), the team needed to get to Houston.

In an article by Keegan the other day, he invoked Jay Wright's comments to elaborate on the significance of a Final Four berth:

At the same time, no loss in any other round stings quite the same as coming so close and then having to watch the Final Four on television.

Villanova coach Jay Wright captured the difference between reaching the Elite Eight and the Final Four in a news conference a day before his team threw a blanket over Perry Ellis and defeated Kansas University, 64-59, Saturday night in the Yum! Center.

“Huge,” Wright said when asked about the difference. “It’s monumental. ... The whole week leading up for the university is great, (and) for the alumni.”

Elite Eight losses rank high among the toughest to stomach in sports.

“I think if you’re in the NBA, you get to the finals, if you don’t win, it’s not that big of a deal,” Wright said. “But getting to the Final Four, it’s so big. It’s defining.”


We didn't come so far this year, to include an overall #1 seed and a 17-game winning streak heading into the E-8 game, only to not walk through that door.

That being said, I took issue with LSHawk's notion that we never win NCs (since we did so in 2008, and got back to the title game in 2012). Both of those seasons were KU-caliber elite seasons...which we need to see more of, IMHO. Different fans have different expectations--and just because not everyone's aligns with yours doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong. The reverse is also true, but I don't see anyone bashing you as a "settler" or anything.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 7 months ago by konza63.

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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7533 by replayloungehawk
Man Corpus that was an awesome post! I get it. I really do. It's funny to hear some of what you say because if you were at my house you would have seen a totally different side of me. The side that drops F bombs and yells and screams. I too go back and analyze things. I even look at the play by play and wonder what went wrong at what point. I do this for months. I have games recorded from years past on a Plex server so I can stream them on my phone and tablet at anytime. I can go back and watch the Sr. night of 08, the championship run of 08, the Big 12 championship of '08. I've got every game recorded this year. I extract them and keep them. I have the 88 championship game. In fact my two sons middle names are Collison and Ellis. I love the heck out of the Hawks. I was so dang disappointed with the Villanova loss. Especially because I truly believe we are a better team. I believe we are the best team in the tourney. Although UNC does look good.

But I get your passion and the passion of all the fans on this board. I get that you have a different way of coping with a loss and I should respect that. I should respect how everyone copes with a loss. I guess I get a little too sensitive about things. I do believe we should have won the Nova game. But we didn't and so I just try to adjust to that somehow. I wake up the day after the game hoping it was a bad dream but it's not.

But thanks for this reply. I gives me a perspective on you that I didn't have prior. Much appreciated. And keep the stats coming. I look at them all the time. It's funny. I used to keep a stats sheet of my own for every statistic of the players because I didn't think ESPN or CBS updated the overall player stats fast enough after a game...Rock Chalk for life!
Last Edit: 8 years 7 months ago by replayloungehawk.
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8 years 7 months ago #7535 by konza63
Good stuff, Replay...

Love your passion...and share it in spades! :woohoo:

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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8 years 7 months ago #7536 by CorpusJayhawk
Total alignment here my friend. Your post is an example of why this forum is the only place for me. Thanks and I too love your passion.

Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!

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8 years 7 months ago #7538 by replayloungehawk
Konza, I wasn't bashing anyone. I wouldn't do that. What I'm trying to say is this....

World Games = Champs
Big 12 Regular Season = Champs
Big 12 Championship = Champs
NCAA = Not Champs

Those don't equate to a bad season or a failure to me at all. I think that is how I take the posts of some. Maybe that's not at all what they mean and I'm just inflecting things into their messages. That's just how it comes across. We lost to a great Villanova team that because we had a #1 in front of us, because we considered the overall #1 it was a bad loss, a failure. If we had been a #2 and Nova had the #1 seed would that have somehow changed things for anyone? If Self had not set any kind of expectations would that have been better? If we had played a masterful game and still lost by 1 or 2 points which was possible the way Nova had been playing all tourney would that have been any different? When we lost by 18 to OSU I didn't think we were going to do all that well this season. I told myself I'd be happy at that point to just make it to the Sweet 16. In fact this board was blowing up with rumors that Self was done and going to the NBA and all kinds of madness. That the team was imploding and no one knew what was going on. Then the ship got turned around and we rattled off win after win. So once again the expectations were there to win it all.

I really understand that we are all trying to figure this out and a loss hurts no matter what. I get that. I didn't watch the Nova game and say "Hmm well maybe next year." No I was upset. Big time. In fact I was really actually sick at my stomach. I don't even know why I get so invested in this team but I do. So I get what everyone is going through. I'm sorry if I come across as one who doesn't care about others opinions. That's not me at all.

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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7540 by konza63
We're good, Replay. I don't think anyone would say it's a "bad" season or "failure" given what we accomplished. What I would say, just for me personally, is what Self would say: that we didn't make the tough yet critical step from a "very good" season to a "special" one.

Keep in mind that, at least with me, I take a VERY LONG VIEW of KU performance and success, as well, and I am always thinking comparatively and relatively. (And when we get so close, particularly in a year like this one where we're the best team, the field is thinner, and we have a great shot to snag another NC, it hurts big-time to not get it...especially knowing how every year changes, and it may not be nearly as smooth of an opportunity going forward)

KU has had WAY too many "close but no cigar" opportunities in the tournament (going all the way back to 1953 and 1957)--literally the difference in being a 3-NC (NCAA) program vs. something more like the 8-NC UK program. If the ball bounces the other way, we're right there with them--and that is quite frustrating...because it's the sole "hole" or shortcoming in our otherwise unassailable blueblood resume.

As I said last night, KU has too much unique history, tradition, and b-ball pedigree to take a back seat to ANY program. Therefore, I always am gauging our success by how we're faring vis-a-vis the tiny handful of other elite programs. Some may differ with that approach, and it certainly sets one up for more disappointment than joy on an annual basis, but I just can't personally settle for anything less given the hallowed ground that is KU basketball.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 7 months ago by konza63.

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8 years 7 months ago #7541 by replayloungehawk
Thanks Konza. I agree with you that this could have and really should have been a special season. I do understand what you are saying completely too. We have had so many close calls that it get's so dang frustrating.

So on a side note. Here is something for you since you mentioned the '53 season.


Marvin Deckert is on that team. That's my wife's uncle. He said Dean Smith was an a-hole. HAHA. It's something fun for you to get you mind off of Nova. It's awesome to talk to him and hear all his stories.

Here's another funny thing. I was just at a leadership conference in Orlando two weeks ago. Some guy was trying to get me to take online courses at the University he worked for. He said "It's a great program from a great University." I just found his card in my back pack as I was looking for something else. He worked for Villanova! I tore the card up!

Rock chalk...we'll get em next year.
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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7542 by HawkErrant
CJ, I know you are being serious in your very well delineated reply (and thanks for teaching me a new word today - "seriatim"), but I have to tell you -- you just made me laugh, think and cry right now, so in the space of a few minutes I've had a full day! I'm swallowing my whistle now, and am just going to sit here smiling for a while! :)

Rock Chalk Forever, old friend!

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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8 years 7 months ago #7543 by konza63
I have to tell you -- you just made me laugh, think and cry right now, so in the space of a few minutes I've had a full day!

Same here, HE. Corpus, phenomenal stuff as always... (need a thumbs-up emoticon!)

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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8 years 7 months ago #7544 by konza63
What a great video, Replay--can't thank you enough for sharing that, as I had not seen it before.

Your wife's Uncle's take on Dean is hilarious. For some reason I'm not surprised. :whistle:

Good stuff, amigo...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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8 years 7 months ago #7546 by HawkErrant

konza63 wrote: ...Keep in mind that, at least with me, I take a VERY LONG VIEW of KU performance and success, as well, and I am always thinking comparatively and relatively. (And when we get so close, particularly in a year like this one where we're the best team, the field is thinner, and we have a great shot to snag another NC, it hurts big-time to not get it...especially knowing how every year changes, and it may not be nearly as smooth of an opportunity going forward)

KU has had WAY too many "close but no cigar" opportunities in the tournament (going all the way back to 1953 and 1957)--literally the difference in being a 3-NC (NCAA) program vs. something more like the 8-NC UK program. If the ball bounces the other way, we're right there with them--and that is quite frustrating...because it's the sole "hole" or shortcoming in our otherwise unassailable blueblood resume.


Long view here as well, which is why even though KU got stomped by Indiana in the 2nd NCAA NC in 1940 -- in Municipal Auditorium in KCK, our very own back yard -- I include it in those woulda-coulda-shoulda teams. Was IU that much better and Branch McCracken a better coach than Phog in 1940 and 1953? I would argue no, especially in 1953 -- both the teams and the coaches were great. Those were just games that went the way they did, something that happens far too often with far too many coaches in KU history. Just looking at FFs that went south for KU: Allen 1940, 1953; Harp 1957; Owens 1971, 1974; Brown 1986. Looking deeper with Williams: 4 FFs, 5 E8s and 9 times no better than the Sweet 16 in his 14 eligible years. And of course, *our* Self, as CJ has argued the greatest regular season coach in the game today, but once again getting ready to go to the FF as a non-participant.

We *LOVE* what we have, but WE WANT MORE!

Things that make you go AUGH!

Great stuff today, folks, thanks so much!

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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8 years 7 months ago #7547 by HawkErrant
Love the video, but must ask if it is a mash up of 1952 and 1953 pics and video. Clyde was in the one classic photo of Dean, and isn't that him in the video of them walking down the street at the end of the clip?

Thanks again, replay!

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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