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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Press
- Canahawk
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8 years 9 months ago #3663
by Canahawk
First time poster. Greetings from Canada. I feel like knowing a lot of you having been following the board for over 20 years.
I post tonight not because we won but it truly was one of the best games that I have seen for a long time. I have just about watched every KU game on TV. I probably watched more games than most of you the year Wiggins played at KU as every game was televised in Toronto.
I thought the kids were poise and steady the whole way. We played hard but not frantic. The game was always in a controlled pace. Our guards handled the pressure well. Aside from a few misassignments on defense we were quite good covering as a team. If not for a number of missed open shots we would have won the game quite handily.
I have a question for the gurus on this board. When we broke the press why is it we do not go in and try to score. On quite a few times we had the open lane to drive or had another open man on the side. I do not coach and therefore do not understand why we held back. In such a situation I believe we have a good chance to score or draw a foul. That will no doubt put a lot of pressure on the opposing team to score each trip down having trailed us. Killing time too early and allowing the opponent to stay within striking distance may change the momentum of a game. That is my simple reasoning.
I post tonight not because we won but it truly was one of the best games that I have seen for a long time. I have just about watched every KU game on TV. I probably watched more games than most of you the year Wiggins played at KU as every game was televised in Toronto.
I thought the kids were poise and steady the whole way. We played hard but not frantic. The game was always in a controlled pace. Our guards handled the pressure well. Aside from a few misassignments on defense we were quite good covering as a team. If not for a number of missed open shots we would have won the game quite handily.
I have a question for the gurus on this board. When we broke the press why is it we do not go in and try to score. On quite a few times we had the open lane to drive or had another open man on the side. I do not coach and therefore do not understand why we held back. In such a situation I believe we have a good chance to score or draw a foul. That will no doubt put a lot of pressure on the opposing team to score each trip down having trailed us. Killing time too early and allowing the opponent to stay within striking distance may change the momentum of a game. That is my simple reasoning.
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- AZhawk87
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8 years 9 months ago #3665
by AZhawk87
Welcome Canada! 20 years of reading and now first post. Wow. Great patience.
I agree that attacking the press seems superior to just getting it across the line and then waiting for the press to catch up. I watched the last few WVU games and the teams that attacked them after breaking the press had a much easier time.
Our first game in particular we seemed overwhelmed with the pressure, and the goal was just to cross half court. If we succeeded, we stopped and retreated, then ran horrible offense.
Tonight I thought we attacked appropriately. The press is primarily designed to created pressured turnovers. Secondarily, it is to take time off the shot clock so you can't run your normal offense, there by creating continued pressure. Third, even if you succeed in breaking the press, attacking with abandon itself takes you out of your normal offense, which may succeed on a play-by-play basis, but ultimately can get a team away from its game plan, out of rhythm, and thereby still creating pressure and mistakes.
Add all of this together, and throw in the concept that with a lead, it's often just as important to run time off the clock as to score quickly, and you get a good coach telling his team to attack when you clearly have the advantage, but pull back when necessary to run your game planned offense.
Just my thoughts.
Rock Chalk eh
I agree that attacking the press seems superior to just getting it across the line and then waiting for the press to catch up. I watched the last few WVU games and the teams that attacked them after breaking the press had a much easier time.
Our first game in particular we seemed overwhelmed with the pressure, and the goal was just to cross half court. If we succeeded, we stopped and retreated, then ran horrible offense.
Tonight I thought we attacked appropriately. The press is primarily designed to created pressured turnovers. Secondarily, it is to take time off the shot clock so you can't run your normal offense, there by creating continued pressure. Third, even if you succeed in breaking the press, attacking with abandon itself takes you out of your normal offense, which may succeed on a play-by-play basis, but ultimately can get a team away from its game plan, out of rhythm, and thereby still creating pressure and mistakes.
Add all of this together, and throw in the concept that with a lead, it's often just as important to run time off the clock as to score quickly, and you get a good coach telling his team to attack when you clearly have the advantage, but pull back when necessary to run your game planned offense.
Just my thoughts.
Rock Chalk eh
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- konza63
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8 years 9 months ago #3677
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Welcome aboard, Canahawk!
It's great to have you come out of the shadows and into the limelight. I really enjoyed your first post and insights, and I don't have much to add to AZhawk's thorough response. I concur with AZ's thought that tonight we seemed to attack it appropriately. There may have been a few instances where we could've gone to the hoop, but by and large I thought we did a great job picking our shots. Recall the time that Selden went in, drew Devin Williams and another forward out toward him, and then both Lucas and Ellis converged (almost like a pincer movement) toward the hoop, giving Selden the nice lob opportunity to Perry. That was a great example of when we did attack it, and closed it out effectively. I noticed a couple other times where Frank took it in aggressively, but then he appeared to see the defense closing and made a split-second decision to pull it back out and set up the offensive set. I applaud that kind of decision-making.
Overall, using the same criteria AZ laid out, I really believe we did a very good job tonight in beating the press but then making mostly the right decisions on when to aggressively go for the quick bucket versus pulling back out to run our sets. And the nice thing tonight is boy, did we run our sets well. Our offense tonight, IMO, was a thing of beauty. Classic KU ball at its finest on display. Really nice to see!
Again, thanks for posting, and don't be shy!
Rock Chalk...
It's great to have you come out of the shadows and into the limelight. I really enjoyed your first post and insights, and I don't have much to add to AZhawk's thorough response. I concur with AZ's thought that tonight we seemed to attack it appropriately. There may have been a few instances where we could've gone to the hoop, but by and large I thought we did a great job picking our shots. Recall the time that Selden went in, drew Devin Williams and another forward out toward him, and then both Lucas and Ellis converged (almost like a pincer movement) toward the hoop, giving Selden the nice lob opportunity to Perry. That was a great example of when we did attack it, and closed it out effectively. I noticed a couple other times where Frank took it in aggressively, but then he appeared to see the defense closing and made a split-second decision to pull it back out and set up the offensive set. I applaud that kind of decision-making.
Overall, using the same criteria AZ laid out, I really believe we did a very good job tonight in beating the press but then making mostly the right decisions on when to aggressively go for the quick bucket versus pulling back out to run our sets. And the nice thing tonight is boy, did we run our sets well. Our offense tonight, IMO, was a thing of beauty. Classic KU ball at its finest on display. Really nice to see!
Again, thanks for posting, and don't be shy!
Rock Chalk...
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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- HawkErrant
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8 years 9 months ago #3682
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
At 20+ years, you have been lurking for as long as some of old oldest members! Are you a KU grad, or just a fan? If the latter, what got you started? I've been an RCBer since 1996, and I know for sure Senex68 was here were I first found the site. Can't say for certain about any others (aside from Dave, of course). Sadly we have lost so many good contributors along the way since then (thankfully most to other priorities rearing their heads, and not the Grim Reaper).
Glad to see you finally choose to jump into the conversation.
To your question, I have nothing to add to what has already been written. Nice job, all, and one of the reasons I am still here 20 years later.
KU!
Glad to see you finally choose to jump into the conversation.
To your question, I have nothing to add to what has already been written. Nice job, all, and one of the reasons I am still here 20 years later.
KU!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- Canahawk
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8 years 9 months ago #3688
by Canahawk
Yes, I graduated from KU Civil Engineering, 1976. Had a wonderful 3.5 years at KU.
As a poor student I had to work and study. I did attend one home game playing Oklahoma State. We won. I was at the upper desk and felt the entire field house shaking. It was quite an experience. In 2012 I returned with a few KU buddies for a reunion for the first time. We attended the late night. I recall seeing a freshmen by the name Parry playing really well. Guess he has not disappointed me a bit.
Some years back I actually tried to register. The registration did not work for some reasons. I recall having some email exchange with Dave.
As a poor student I had to work and study. I did attend one home game playing Oklahoma State. We won. I was at the upper desk and felt the entire field house shaking. It was quite an experience. In 2012 I returned with a few KU buddies for a reunion for the first time. We attended the late night. I recall seeing a freshmen by the name Parry playing really well. Guess he has not disappointed me a bit.
Some years back I actually tried to register. The registration did not work for some reasons. I recall having some email exchange with Dave.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant
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- Bayhawk
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8 years 9 months ago #3705
by Bayhawk
The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet
. . .to come!!!
I found the board in 1996 but didn't register for a few years. You, our friend, probably hold the record for waiting the longest!
Cal Bear wife and I love Canada. I'll leave you with this bad joke: What does C N D spell? Canada (C eh, N eh, D eh).
O.K., no more jokes about the great white north,
RC
I found the board in 1996 but didn't register for a few years. You, our friend, probably hold the record for waiting the longest!
Cal Bear wife and I love Canada. I'll leave you with this bad joke: What does C N D spell? Canada (C eh, N eh, D eh).
O.K., no more jokes about the great white north,
RC
The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet
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- NotOstertag
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8 years 9 months ago #3711
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
Good analysis. I think if you watch the previous game vs. today, we did attack WHEN APPROPRIATE. We did when we had numbers or a decent lane to the basket, and we did when we weren't rushing. In the last game, we attacked in a rushed manner, or got hung up with bad spacing.
Bottom line, I think we took advantage when we had the opportunity, but if it was questionable, we'd go into the halfcourt offense and maintain good spacing to avoid more trapping.
One additional thing: what sometimes looks like an open lane on TV might look very different on the ground. I found it interesting a couple years ago when it became obvious that Travis Releford simply couldn't use his left hand to dribble or shoot, so even layups on the left side of the court were done righty. Without knowing the scouting report on all of our guys, I'd imagine that some of the lanes that you see appear are simply the defense trying to push a guy to his weak side. Sometimes that bait isn't worth taking.
Bottom line, I think we took advantage when we had the opportunity, but if it was questionable, we'd go into the halfcourt offense and maintain good spacing to avoid more trapping.
One additional thing: what sometimes looks like an open lane on TV might look very different on the ground. I found it interesting a couple years ago when it became obvious that Travis Releford simply couldn't use his left hand to dribble or shoot, so even layups on the left side of the court were done righty. Without knowing the scouting report on all of our guys, I'd imagine that some of the lanes that you see appear are simply the defense trying to push a guy to his weak side. Sometimes that bait isn't worth taking.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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