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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Monday morning musings 2025-02-17
- HawkErrant
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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #33540
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Posting an edited version of a text I sent to hoshi on Sunday morning, with some additional thoughts as Lawrence once again sees snow falling on the ground this cold Monday morning in a winter of our discontent - HawkErrant
This feels like 2019, only we haven’t lost an Azubuike out for the season after just 9 games, had one talented *freshman* not pan out (Quentin Grimes) and have to take the redshirt off another (Agbaji). Like then, again we see failure from our transfers, with only one transfer out of the group (Dedric Lawson, out of him, KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore - a supposedly much less talented group than this year’s group, but still) play as expected, which usually meant lots of points but no defense to stop the other guys scoring more without Dok to guard the rim and freshman big David McCormack just learning the ropes. But those guys at least had heart. I’m just not seeing it with this group. And *that* is the most frustrating thing for me.
And I also don’t see this group ending up with at least 26 wins like the 2018-19 team did (even with only having Dok for 9 games). I don’t think they can win 9 out of a *possible* 16 games left (6 season + 4 Big 12 + 6 NCAA tournaments, so only 8 games guaranteed). Prove me wrong, Jayhawks. I’d be thrilled to be wrong… but today I just don’t believe, and that’s largely because I don’t think you believe - HE
Just so frustrating after Saturday night - which they should have/could have won if —
•They played defense as they are capable of (see the 7 minute stretch in H2 where Utah went without scoring, but also note that every one of the 11 of 34 treys Utah made were wide open shots)
•Dickinson didn’t fail miserably going 3 of 10 inside the arc. He was actually 1-2 from 3 - yeah, he finally hit one! Later on Sunday I read that he was 2 of 6 AT THE RIM, which sadly, frustratingly seems about right. - HE
•Mayo didn’t have some critical WTF?!? moments passing the ball that just killed any hope of building/maintaining momentum.
WE NEVER LED. Tied them 60 all with 5 minutes to go but fell flat after that.
Did ok at the FT line for the game (70%), but missed key ones late to take the lead that could have changed the zeitgeist of the game. Flory missed most of them (at 4 of 7 he had 3 of the 6 misses in 20 attempts - and don’t get me started on the refs!), but he is better at FTs than Dok at this stage, hopefully he’ll get even better.
I’ve given up on this year’s team. For all the supposed talent coming in it just hasn’t shown up on the court. And IMO it has everything to do with heart (missing) and basketball IQ (Self noting - and I’m paraphrasing here - that he and the other coaches aren’t getting the guys to follow the game plan, to use the scouting report, to play smart) - HE
PROJECTED PLAYER LOSSES AFTER THIS SEASON
I love KJ for all he does do, he is one guy I actually am going to miss because of his heart and usually high energy level. But I can’t wait to have a 4 who is still a defense focused guy, but who can score from outside (opening up the paint) and consistently rebound.
Dajuan has always been solid but not great, but apparently no one but Father Time can beat him out for the job of starting PG. Next season Self won’t have his “coach on the floor” crutch to lean on, he’ll have to learn to trust someone else.
Dickinson (ugh), Mayo, Moore and Coit are the only other sure scholarship losses.
Based on this season to date, the only returning player I feel very confident will be a lock to start next season is Flory Bidunga. Storr, Griffen, McDowell, Jackson and Passmore will all be scrapping for PT.
Bill has 3 highly touted newbies signed for next year (ranked from the #4 to the #7 recruiting class last I checked, depending on the service) and at least 4 more scholarships available. I’m really hoping he can get some more HS talent with those last 4, and maybe two solid upperclassmen transfers at most, depending on who’s available.
I really consider Dickinson a swing and a miss because in addition to his poor defense and folding on offense against strong post players he cost us 2 bigs in Ernest Udeh and Zuby Ejiofor. I believe they would have thrived under Self. Udeh is just doing so-so at TCU, but Zuby is having a nice season with Pitino at St John’s. We’ll never know how they’d have matured with experience in Bill’s system.
Waiting for spring recruiting and next season…
Unless, of course, our guys surprise us and gel in the postseason à la 2011 UConn...
Now where is that confounded pipe?
This feels like 2019, only we haven’t lost an Azubuike out for the season after just 9 games, had one talented *freshman* not pan out (Quentin Grimes) and have to take the redshirt off another (Agbaji). Like then, again we see failure from our transfers, with only one transfer out of the group (Dedric Lawson, out of him, KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore - a supposedly much less talented group than this year’s group, but still) play as expected, which usually meant lots of points but no defense to stop the other guys scoring more without Dok to guard the rim and freshman big David McCormack just learning the ropes. But those guys at least had heart. I’m just not seeing it with this group. And *that* is the most frustrating thing for me.
And I also don’t see this group ending up with at least 26 wins like the 2018-19 team did (even with only having Dok for 9 games). I don’t think they can win 9 out of a *possible* 16 games left (6 season + 4 Big 12 + 6 NCAA tournaments, so only 8 games guaranteed). Prove me wrong, Jayhawks. I’d be thrilled to be wrong… but today I just don’t believe, and that’s largely because I don’t think you believe - HE
Just so frustrating after Saturday night - which they should have/could have won if —
•They played defense as they are capable of (see the 7 minute stretch in H2 where Utah went without scoring, but also note that every one of the 11 of 34 treys Utah made were wide open shots)
•Dickinson didn’t fail miserably going 3 of 10 inside the arc. He was actually 1-2 from 3 - yeah, he finally hit one! Later on Sunday I read that he was 2 of 6 AT THE RIM, which sadly, frustratingly seems about right. - HE
•Mayo didn’t have some critical WTF?!? moments passing the ball that just killed any hope of building/maintaining momentum.
WE NEVER LED. Tied them 60 all with 5 minutes to go but fell flat after that.
Did ok at the FT line for the game (70%), but missed key ones late to take the lead that could have changed the zeitgeist of the game. Flory missed most of them (at 4 of 7 he had 3 of the 6 misses in 20 attempts - and don’t get me started on the refs!), but he is better at FTs than Dok at this stage, hopefully he’ll get even better.
I’ve given up on this year’s team. For all the supposed talent coming in it just hasn’t shown up on the court. And IMO it has everything to do with heart (missing) and basketball IQ (Self noting - and I’m paraphrasing here - that he and the other coaches aren’t getting the guys to follow the game plan, to use the scouting report, to play smart) - HE
PROJECTED PLAYER LOSSES AFTER THIS SEASON
I love KJ for all he does do, he is one guy I actually am going to miss because of his heart and usually high energy level. But I can’t wait to have a 4 who is still a defense focused guy, but who can score from outside (opening up the paint) and consistently rebound.
Dajuan has always been solid but not great, but apparently no one but Father Time can beat him out for the job of starting PG. Next season Self won’t have his “coach on the floor” crutch to lean on, he’ll have to learn to trust someone else.
Dickinson (ugh), Mayo, Moore and Coit are the only other sure scholarship losses.
Based on this season to date, the only returning player I feel very confident will be a lock to start next season is Flory Bidunga. Storr, Griffen, McDowell, Jackson and Passmore will all be scrapping for PT.
Bill has 3 highly touted newbies signed for next year (ranked from the #4 to the #7 recruiting class last I checked, depending on the service) and at least 4 more scholarships available. I’m really hoping he can get some more HS talent with those last 4, and maybe two solid upperclassmen transfers at most, depending on who’s available.
I really consider Dickinson a swing and a miss because in addition to his poor defense and folding on offense against strong post players he cost us 2 bigs in Ernest Udeh and Zuby Ejiofor. I believe they would have thrived under Self. Udeh is just doing so-so at TCU, but Zuby is having a nice season with Pitino at St John’s. We’ll never know how they’d have matured with experience in Bill’s system.
Waiting for spring recruiting and next season…
Unless, of course, our guys surprise us and gel in the postseason à la 2011 UConn...
Now where is that confounded pipe?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by HawkErrant.
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33542
by porthawk
Nicely stated, HE. Very insightful comments. I can't say I disagree anyone you said and I appreciate your very measured tone.
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- Riverhawk
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33543
by Riverhawk
I guess what bothers me most (among several things) is that KU used to always play tough and smart down the stretch of close games. Not this bunch. Collapse is not too strong a word for what this team has done too many times this season.
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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #33544
by LKF_HAWK
HE always with the well thought out post. What is most concerning is the team’s regression since Nov in pretty much all aspects. They shy away from the fight unlike past KU teams. KU teams used to be the big bad bully that reached into an opponent’s chest and ripped their proverbial heart out. Now Utah doesn’t bother to storm the court …and KU can’t take candy form a newborn.
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by LKF_HAWK.
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33545
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
Couldn't agree more. I, too, have given up on these guys. Agree on Hunter as well. I saw St. Johns live at MSG a couple weeks ago and Ejifor is 1000x tougher. Maybe not as talented overall, but he doesn't avoid contact, plays defense, dunks, etc.
Last year was disappointing. This year is downright depressing.
Last year was disappointing. This year is downright depressing.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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- CorpusJayhawk
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33546
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
At the risk of alienating a lot of Bill Self coolaid drinkers, I have consistently been on the record for 3 years that KJ Adams and Dajuan Harris are nothing more than role players. To quote “build” a team around those guys, in my opinion and now in the evaluation of the objective data, is a quick and sure path to mediocrity. I have a player rating system that obviously I believe in and I believe it has efficacy, rates Dajuan Harris at a level you would expect for a decent back-up point guard. He rates out as the 2nd worst point guard going back to 1990 at KU. Only Nadiir Tharpe rates out worse. He is a nice player and I would be fine with him on my team as a backup PG. KJ ditto. KJ has a few strengths like Dajuan but has some glaring holes in his game. It all adds up to a player who would be a decent backup but rates way to low for starter far much less than a core starter. Fran Fraschilla stated it blatantly in the Colorado game. He agrees, based on his unambiguous comments, that KJ and Dajuan are nice role players. But Self has chosen to make them the core and has tried to build a team around them. Well if you want to make a case that you can destroy talent Bill’s portal choices would provide some evidence. These guys build a resume and come to KU to underperform. Is it Self’s system? Or maybe is it that you are adding talent to a marginally talented core and expecting the new guys to fit in rather than become the new core.
I have said for three years that Self should recruit over KJ and Dajuan rather than making them the core and building around them. How many teams have outshined our core. It really boils down to KU and Self has built a team from parts that are simply decent college basketball players. That is far away from a take no prisoners mentality. Self seems to get married to certain guys and becomes completely blinded to the reality of their ability to lead a championship level team.
As some of you may remember, I have a power rating system called DPPI. Last season was a disaster. It was a borderline disaster before the injuries as KU ranked only 10th in the country with an adjusted rating assuming KU’s core 5 starters played every minute of every game. But when you took McCullar out of the lineup, KU ranked 129th in the country. Overall for the season we ranked 28th. Now 28th out of 362 teams is not bad by some standards but by KU standards it is catastrophic. And this season KU ranks 16th overall and 21st in the pure predictor. Seriously, there is no getting around the fact that the last two season, KU has been a 15th.to 25th ranked team. And ad in 2023 it doesn’t move that needle much. What is one huge commonality of those teams? KJ Adams and Dajuan Harris as core players. Again, Self has decided to build a team around these guys. He has won the portal lottery so to speak and has failed spectacularly. Could so many pundits be so wrong about so many players when we look at KU’s transfers? Or maybe is it time to go cold turkey off the coolaid and say that Self has failed. Do we have enough evidence to say that the core theory of KJ and Dajuan is a failure? I say emphatically yes. Clearly our portal players have been failures. But after so many consistently underperforming, the correlation would start to beg the question of is it self and maybe the core group at KU. Yes, correlation does not necessitate causation but it does beg the question. And when I actually put the data in the system and rate it out, the causation is supported. I am not a let’s fire Self guy or anything like that. But I am a let’s hold the dude accountable for his monstrous salary and worship status. I am simply sick and tired of the perpetual deflection of the factotums. I like Greg Gurley and Davis Lawrence and Sean Kellerman and the others. They do a great job for KU and are true blue KU guys. But they are world class deflectors for Self with comments like “all these internet critics have no legitimacy since Self h=is a HOF and we should trust in Self becasue he is a HOF’er. Well, that is a logical fallacy of post hoc ergo proctor hoc. Self is clearly one of the best coaches of all time, no one is arguing that. My argument is that KU has failed epically and trended negatively for some time now and he is at the center of the cause of this.
I love Dajuan and I will be all for a huge celebration of his career on senior night. Ditto for KJ. But I am not talking about them as young men. I am talking about them for the role they play in this team. And really it is not their fault. They have played their role as best they can in my opinion. It is the fault of Self for putting them in the position to fail by making them into something they simply are not. That would be like building a team around Mitch Lightfoot. Mitch was a crazy fun KU player and great guy. And he was one helluva 10-14 minute per game guy when needed. But to build a team around him would have been ludicrous. Self needs to regain some killer instinct and see the reality of his players.
I have said for three years that Self should recruit over KJ and Dajuan rather than making them the core and building around them. How many teams have outshined our core. It really boils down to KU and Self has built a team from parts that are simply decent college basketball players. That is far away from a take no prisoners mentality. Self seems to get married to certain guys and becomes completely blinded to the reality of their ability to lead a championship level team.
As some of you may remember, I have a power rating system called DPPI. Last season was a disaster. It was a borderline disaster before the injuries as KU ranked only 10th in the country with an adjusted rating assuming KU’s core 5 starters played every minute of every game. But when you took McCullar out of the lineup, KU ranked 129th in the country. Overall for the season we ranked 28th. Now 28th out of 362 teams is not bad by some standards but by KU standards it is catastrophic. And this season KU ranks 16th overall and 21st in the pure predictor. Seriously, there is no getting around the fact that the last two season, KU has been a 15th.to 25th ranked team. And ad in 2023 it doesn’t move that needle much. What is one huge commonality of those teams? KJ Adams and Dajuan Harris as core players. Again, Self has decided to build a team around these guys. He has won the portal lottery so to speak and has failed spectacularly. Could so many pundits be so wrong about so many players when we look at KU’s transfers? Or maybe is it time to go cold turkey off the coolaid and say that Self has failed. Do we have enough evidence to say that the core theory of KJ and Dajuan is a failure? I say emphatically yes. Clearly our portal players have been failures. But after so many consistently underperforming, the correlation would start to beg the question of is it self and maybe the core group at KU. Yes, correlation does not necessitate causation but it does beg the question. And when I actually put the data in the system and rate it out, the causation is supported. I am not a let’s fire Self guy or anything like that. But I am a let’s hold the dude accountable for his monstrous salary and worship status. I am simply sick and tired of the perpetual deflection of the factotums. I like Greg Gurley and Davis Lawrence and Sean Kellerman and the others. They do a great job for KU and are true blue KU guys. But they are world class deflectors for Self with comments like “all these internet critics have no legitimacy since Self h=is a HOF and we should trust in Self becasue he is a HOF’er. Well, that is a logical fallacy of post hoc ergo proctor hoc. Self is clearly one of the best coaches of all time, no one is arguing that. My argument is that KU has failed epically and trended negatively for some time now and he is at the center of the cause of this.
I love Dajuan and I will be all for a huge celebration of his career on senior night. Ditto for KJ. But I am not talking about them as young men. I am talking about them for the role they play in this team. And really it is not their fault. They have played their role as best they can in my opinion. It is the fault of Self for putting them in the position to fail by making them into something they simply are not. That would be like building a team around Mitch Lightfoot. Mitch was a crazy fun KU player and great guy. And he was one helluva 10-14 minute per game guy when needed. But to build a team around him would have been ludicrous. Self needs to regain some killer instinct and see the reality of his players.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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- hairyhawk
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33548
by hairyhawk
What it comes down to IMHO is Bill Self is a bit too loyal to his guys that have been around.
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33557
by KMT
Well said and even though everything was before last night's game...it aged spot on.
Next year, this is is SO critical IMO regarding Coach Self: "...he’ll have to learn to trust someone else."
I just felt the line-up changes, and short leash really affected this team - they were playing loose and "trusted" in the big games early on...then the noose got tighter. I am not one to question Self's success at all, but you have to adjust in coaching (or management), and I didn't see it this year. We've always had that weird end of Jan to mid Feb, the sky is falling b/c of a couple of games, but then they work through. This team totally feels like the 2019 team you referenced above.
As I'm a Cubs fan too, and hope always spring eternal
I'm hoping the TTU, Houston, AZ stretch, we revert back to the team at the beginning of this year.
Rock Chalk!
Next year, this is is SO critical IMO regarding Coach Self: "...he’ll have to learn to trust someone else."
I just felt the line-up changes, and short leash really affected this team - they were playing loose and "trusted" in the big games early on...then the noose got tighter. I am not one to question Self's success at all, but you have to adjust in coaching (or management), and I didn't see it this year. We've always had that weird end of Jan to mid Feb, the sky is falling b/c of a couple of games, but then they work through. This team totally feels like the 2019 team you referenced above.
As I'm a Cubs fan too, and hope always spring eternal

Rock Chalk!
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- USAF Jayhawk
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33565
by USAF Jayhawk
One quibble...Coit is reportedly able to come back since his JC year no longer counts against his eligibility years at DI (NCAA blanket waiver). Personally, I think that is another case of the courts run amok but...
HawkErrant wrote: Dickinson (ugh), Mayo, Moore and Coit are the only other sure scholarship losses.
One quibble...Coit is reportedly able to come back since his JC year no longer counts against his eligibility years at DI (NCAA blanket waiver). Personally, I think that is another case of the courts run amok but...
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1 month 2 weeks ago #33566
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Yeah, I keep forgetting about his JC time not counting now.
Question is given the way things are going this year will he want to stay, assuming Bill wants him to stay? I’m thinking he’s gone, but no way to be sure.
Question is given the way things are going this year will he want to stay, assuming Bill wants him to stay? I’m thinking he’s gone, but no way to be sure.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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