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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
predictions for Duke game
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4 months 2 weeks ago #33180
by asteroid
Can someone help me figure this one out? Massey has Kansas ranked #7
and Duke ranked #12. Today's game is on a neutral court. The higher
ranked team ought to be favored, right? Wrong! Massey is picking
Duke to win by a score of 72 to 69. How is that possible? It's not
the home court advantage; it's nobody's home court. It's not distance
traveled; Las Vegas is closer to Lawrence than it is to Durham. (Or
did Duke stay in the Mountain Time zone after its win at Arizona last
Friday?) How can you take a power rating of 8.89 (Kansas) and a power
rating of 8.76 (Duke) and conclude that Kansas will lose by 3?
I'll speculate that Massey is taking into account by how much Duke
played above expectation in all four of its wins. Even after taking
into account the 10 point below-expectation performance in the Kentucky
loss, Duke is averaging 9.5 points above expectation, and that would be
enough to overcome Massey's rating difference. But hey, if you're going
to take into account performance in your game predictions, then why not
take performance into account in your rating? Makes no sense to me.
Picking Kansas to lose is common, though those prognosticators at least
have Duke ranked higher than Kansas. Only Colley has Duke ranked so low
that Kansas is favored in the game. The DPPI is particularly pessimistic.
Dunkel, inexplicably, has Duke ranked much higher than Kansas, yet is
picking Kansas to win the game. Go figure. Does Dunkel use some sort
of secret sauce in his predictions, like a luck factor or gut feeling?
Both Kansas and Duke have played two marquee opponents and three others.
Kansas did North Carolina at home and Michigan State at a neutral site,
whereas Duke did Kentucky at a neutral site and Arizona on the road.
Because today's game is a neutral court affair, that slight difference
in where the marquee opponents were played shouldn't matter much.
Duke has Pomeroy's #1 defense, allowing just 0.88 points per possession.
Meanwhile, Kansas has Pomeroy's #13 offense, scoring 1.184 points per
possession. Aside from Kentucky's 77 points, the most the Blue Devils
have allowed is 62 to Maine. They held Wofford to 35 points. Kansas is
no slouch on defense, allowing only 0.941 points per possession, while
Duke's offense is just behind Kansas at 1.183 points per possession.
The other striking difference is in consistency. Kansas has played all
five games within 5 points of expectation. Duke has been all over the
place.
Rock Chalk!
Greenfield Stats Comparison
===========================
Offensive Stats Duke KU Defensive Stats Duke KU
Points/Game 84.6 83.6 Opp Points/Game 57.4 67.6
Avg Score Margin +27.2 +16.0 Opp Effective FG % 40.1 44.2
Assists/Game 17.4 19.8 Off Rebounds/Gm 11.6 6.8
Total Rebounds/Gm 44.0 38.0 Def Rebounds/Gm 29.6 28.0
Effective FG % 55.6 57.3 Blocks/Game 4.4 4.8
Off Rebound % 35.2 22.2 Steals/Game 8.4 6.4
FTA/FGA 0.241 0.259 Personal Fouls/Gm 15.8 16.2
Turnover % 12.5 11.5
My Stats Comparison KU Duke
=================== ============= ============
performance +0.06 +9.46
inconsistency 3.26 13.64
trend -1.53 ± 0.80 +2.02 ± 4.84
mental toughness +0.02 ± 0.18 -0.62 ± 0.55
average total pts 151.2 142.0
Common Opponents
================
There are no common opponents.
Players to Watch
================
most minutes Cooper Flagg (guard) tied with Kon Knueppel
most points Cooper Flagg (guard)
most rebounds Cooper Flagg (guard)
most assists Cooper Flagg (guard)
most steals Cooper Flagg (guard)
most blocks Cooper Flagg (guard)
most turnovers Cooper Flagg (guard)
most fouls Cooper Flagg (guard) tied with Maliq Brown and Tyrese Proctor
Does Duke look a little one-dimensional? Get Flagg in foul trouble, and we'll be
fine. Or put Marcus Garrett on him. Oh wait...
5-0 4-1
Margin Predicted Win Prb Kansas Duke
Predictor points Score percent Rating SOS Rating SOS
==================== ====== ========= ======= ============ ============
Massey -3.00 69 72 43 # 7 # 26 # 12 # 11
Pomeroy -4.22 71 75 34.5 # 9 #144 # 4 #104
Greenfield -3.50 72.5 76 # 11 # 13 # 3 # 3
Dunkel +1.50 76 75 # 33 # 6
Vegas (via Dunkel) -3.50 72 75 40.0
Dolphin Predictive -6.23 68 74 29.9 # 19 # 22 # 2 # 2
Real Time # # # #
Seven Overtimes -1.00 73 74 53 # 12 # 47 # 9 # 60
DPPI -14.20 66 80 6.7 # 24 # 80 # 4 #104
ESPN BPI -5.30 30.0 # 10 # 59 # 2 # 55
Whitlock # # # #
Colley Matrix +7.48 # 6 # 95 # 58 #201
Donchess -1.80 74 76 45.8 # 7 # 37 # 5 # 72
Haslametrics -5.44 70 76 # 10 # 2
INCCStats -2.00 70 72 43 # 7 # 2
common opponents
NCAA NET # #
LRMC # # # #
Massey composite # 9 # 6
Pomeroy offense # 13 # 15
Pomeroy defense # 14 # 1
Pomeroy tempo # 91 #220
==================== ====== ========= ======= ============ ============
average -3.17 71.1 75.0 36.2
scatter 4.88 2.9 2.2 13.4
Here is Kansas' season, for which the projected record is currently 23-8:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
HOME #258 Howard 87 57 +25.91 +4.09
HOME # 12 North Carolina 92 89 +4.41 -1.41
NEUT # 40 Michigan St. 77 69 +5.01 +2.99
HOME #226 Oakland 78 57 +23.27 -2.27
HOME #164 UNC Wilmington 84 66 +21.11 -3.11
NEUT # 4 Duke 71 75 -4.22 0.345
HOME #120 Furman 83 65 +17.98 0.955
AWAY # 33 Creighton 78 77 +1.04 0.539
AWAY # 49 Missouri 78 75 +3.20 0.619
HOME # 54 N.C. State 83 72 +11.23 0.856
HOME #241 Brown 87 63 +24.65 0.990
HOME # 71 West Virginia 82 69 +13.30 0.896
AWAY # 77 UCF 80 73 +6.84 0.741
HOME # 64 Arizona St. 83 70 +12.51 0.882
AWAY # 7 Cincinnati 72 76 -4.12 0.348
AWAY # 8 Iowa St. 73 77 -3.93 0.355
HOME # 65 Kansas St. 81 68 +12.48 0.881
AWAY # 59 TCU 77 72 +4.89 0.678
HOME # 1 Houston 71 72 -0.94 0.465
HOME # 77 UCF 84 70 +13.84 0.905
AWAY # 20 Baylor 76 77 -1.49 0.444
HOME # 8 Iowa St. 77 74 +3.07 0.614
AWAY # 65 Kansas St. 77 72 +5.48 0.698
HOME # 82 Colorado 80 66 +13.89 0.905
AWAY # 52 Utah 80 76 +3.86 0.642
AWAY # 26 BYU 78 78 -0.05 0.498
HOME # 96 Oklahoma St. 88 72 +15.86 0.933
AWAY # 82 Colorado 77 70 +6.89 0.743
HOME # 22 Texas Tech 78 72 +5.93 0.712
AWAY # 1 Houston 67 75 -7.94 0.227
HOME # 24 Arizona 83 77 +6.73 0.738
Here is Duke's season to date:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
HOME #215 Maine 96 62 +26.89 +7.11
HOME #257 Army 100 58 +28.87 +13.13
NEUT # 13 Kentucky 72 77 +5.48 -10.48
HOME #162 Wofford 86 35 +23.45 +27.55
AWAY # 24 Arizona 69 55 +4.01 +9.99
NEUT # 9 Kansas 75 71 +4.22 0.655
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4 months 2 weeks ago - 4 months 2 weeks ago #33181
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Thanks, asteroid!
More on tonight's game, copied from the post in the pinned thread KU Men's Basketball historical links.
Kansas and Duke have met 14 times, with KU winning 6, including 4 of the last 6 meetings, but one of those was lost to the 2018 DeSousa penalty.
KANSAS-DUKE SERIES (5-8*) thru 2023-10-11
Duke leads the all time series with Kansas 8-5*, with 12 of the 14 games being played on a neutral court and each program only visiting the other once.
Kansas and Duke are 2-3* in the NCAA Tournament.
Of special note is the year 1988.
The Pay Heed All Who Enter - BEWARE of "THE PHOG" banner first graced Allen Fieldhouse for the Duke game on February 20, 1988, but KU lost 74-70. The banner was taken down after the game, but returned for Danny Manning's Senior Night.
And in the NCAA Tournament that year the Jayhawks won it all, avenging earlier losses that season by beating K State in the Midwest Regional Final, Duke in the Final Four and Oklahoma in the National Championship game.
Kansas leads Duke 3-1 in the Champions Classic.
Curious fact: both Brown's and Williams' Jayhawks teams earned their respective coach's only victory against K's Blue Devils in each coach's final season at KANSAS.
* Win vacated by NCAA 2023-10-11.
**KANSAS coached by Acting HC Norm Roberts.
(Information compiled from (and compared against as needed) KU Communications GAME NOTES, KU Men's Basketball Media Guides, Sports-Reference CBB Kansas web pages, Wikipedia KANSAS JAYHAWKS Mens Basketball pages and various newspaper and magazine articles.)
More on tonight's game, copied from the post in the pinned thread KU Men's Basketball historical links.
Kansas and Duke have met 14 times, with KU winning 6, including 4 of the last 6 meetings, but one of those was lost to the 2018 DeSousa penalty.
KANSAS-DUKE SERIES (5-8*) thru 2023-10-11
in Lawrence (AFH) 0-1 (0-1)
Neutral 5-6* (2-3 NCAAT [1-0 KCMO]; 3-3 other neutral sites)(6-6 before vacating 2018 NCAAT win)
in Durham 0-1
TIMELINE
1985-12-01 Preseason NIT L 86-92 New York, NY Madison Square Garden
1986-03-29 Final Four L 67-71 Dallas, TX Reunion Arena
1988-02-20 Regular season L 70-74 Lawrence, KS Allen Fieldhouse
1988-04-02 Final Four W 66-59 Kansas City, MO Kemper Arena
1989-02-18 Regular season L 77-102 Durham, NC Cameron Indoor
1991-04-01 NC game L 65-72 Indianapolis, IN Hoosier Dome
2000-03-19 R2 NCAAT L 64-69 Winston-Salem, NC Lawrence Joel Veterans Mem. Coliseum
2003-03-27 S16 NCAAT W 69-65 Anaheim, CA Arrowhead Pond of Anaheim
2011-11-23 Maui Inv. Finals L 61-68 Lahaina, HI Lahaina Civic Center
2013-11-12 Champions Classic W 94-83 Chicago, IL United Center
2016-11-15 Champions Classic W 77-75 New York, NY Madison Square Garden
2018-03-25 E8 NCAAT W 85-81 OT* Omaha, NE CenturyLink Center (Vacated 2023-10-11)
2019-11-06 Champions Classic L 66-68 New York, NY Madison Square Garden
2022-11-15 Champions Classic W 69-64** Indianapolis, IN Bankers Life Fieldhouse
Duke leads the all time series with Kansas 8-5*, with 12 of the 14 games being played on a neutral court and each program only visiting the other once.
Kansas and Duke are 2-3* in the NCAA Tournament.
Of special note is the year 1988.
The Pay Heed All Who Enter - BEWARE of "THE PHOG" banner first graced Allen Fieldhouse for the Duke game on February 20, 1988, but KU lost 74-70. The banner was taken down after the game, but returned for Danny Manning's Senior Night.
And in the NCAA Tournament that year the Jayhawks won it all, avenging earlier losses that season by beating K State in the Midwest Regional Final, Duke in the Final Four and Oklahoma in the National Championship game.
Kansas leads Duke 3-1 in the Champions Classic.
For all games through AY2021-22 Duke was coached by Mike Krzyzewski.
1-3 Larry Brown's KU record against K
1-3 Roy Williams' KU record against K
2-2* Bill Self's KU record against K
From AY2022-23 to today the Duke HC is Jon Scheyer
1-0 Norm Roberts' KU record as acting head coach against Scheyer's Duke team in the 2022 Champions Classic
* Win vacated by NCAA 2023-10-11.
**KANSAS coached by Acting HC Norm Roberts.
(Information compiled from (and compared against as needed) KU Communications GAME NOTES, KU Men's Basketball Media Guides, Sports-Reference CBB Kansas web pages, Wikipedia KANSAS JAYHAWKS Mens Basketball pages and various newspaper and magazine articles.)
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by HawkErrant.
The following user(s) said Thank You: boulderhawk, Socalhawk, porthawk, jaythawk1
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