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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Bill Self W-L Record AY2024-25
7 months 2 weeks ago - 4 months 1 week ago #32611
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
This origin post for AY2024-25 prepares the W-L tracker thread for the new season.
The AY2023-24 thread can be found at this link.
0-0 = KANSAS record for AY2024-25.
2 = Wins remaining for Bill to tie Phog as winningest HC in KANSAS history.
5 = Wins remaining for Bill to reach total career win #800
12 = Wins remaining for Bill to reach KU career win #600
108 = Wins remaining for Bill to tie Roy as THE winningest KANSAS Head Coach for TOTAL CAREER
The official NCAA KANSAS and CAREER W-L records for Phog Allen, Roy Williams and Bill Self are reflected below.
NCAA WON-LOST RECORDS OF WINNINGEST KANSAS MEN'S BASKETBALL COACHES
Link to NCAA database KANSAS head coaches records
BACKGROUND
(This section seldom changes during the course of the season, but each new post will have a link back to this origin post for easy reference.)
Last Update: 2024-04-16
I’ve read (but cannot cite a source as I write this) that in his 21 years at KANSAS Bill's teams are second only to Mark Few’s Gonzaga teams in games won. They earned 2 NCAA titles (2008, 2022), at 28-3 were the overwhelmingly consensus #1 team in the country in the COVID-19 shortened 2020 season, made 4* Final Fours (2008, 2012, 2018* and 2022), won 17* Big 12 regular season titles and won 60 games or more over two consecutive seasons eight times.
*The 2018 Final Four appearance and Big 12 regular season and tournament titles were vacated by the NCAA in 2023 due to recruiting violations involving Silvio DeSousa.
BILL SELF AT KANSAS - WINNINGEST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
>=60 WINS over TWO CONSECUTIVE SEASONS (Σ=9 times, but officially 8 after the IRP decision)(62 wins AY2016-17 and AY2017-18 became 47 with the 2023 IRP decision vacating the 15 wins in 2018 in which DeSousa played)
More KU History: FORREST CLARE "PHOG" or "DOC" ALLEN & ROY WILLIAMS
PHOG
Phog was forcibly retired after the AY1955-56 season due to a Kansas state law requiring state employees to retire at 70. He petitioned for an exemption so he would be able to coach sophomore Wilt Chamberlain in his NCAA varsity debut season, but was denied, and assistant coach Dick Harp took over as head coach. When Phog retired his record was -
KANSAS 39 years
• 1 NCAA Tournament Championship (1952), 2 Helms National Championships (1922, 1923)
• 3 Final Fours (1940, 1952, 1953) and 3 NC games in four NCAA Tournament appearances (lost in game 1 in 1942 to Colorado) in the first 18 years of NCAA Tournament existence*
• 24 Conference Regular Season Championships
• Career W-L: Kansas 590-219 (.729), total 746-264 (0.739)
* A remarkable feat as from its 1939 inception through the 1950 tournament the NCAAT field consisted of just 8 conference champions. No conference was guaranteed a spot, and not all conference champions made the field (for example, per Sports-refernce.com, only 10 Men's Basketball conferences existed in 1940, so right away two champions were going to be left out). In 1951 the field was expanded to 16, with 2 additional conference champion spots and 6 "at-large" bids available. Beginning in 1953 the tournament expanded to 22 and 5 rounds, with 10 teams getting a first round bye. It fluctuated from 22 to 25 until 1975 when it grew to 32 teams. In 1979 it became 40 teams, 1980 it became 48, 1985 it became 64, and finally (so far) in 2011 it became the current 68. (Source: Wikipedia)
Even when the day comes that Bill passes Phog's totals to become the winningest coach in KANSAS history, Bill will still be just the 2nd winningest men's basketball coach for his whole career to ever coach at KANSAS unless he coaches long enough to pass Roy.
ROY
Roy only stayed at KU long enough to record a 418-101 KANSAS record, but he went on to pass Phog in Career wins with his alma mater. Roy retired April 1, 2021, turning 71 in August of that year. His record after 33 years -
KANSAS 15 years
• 4 Final Fours (1991, 1993, 2002, 2003); 2 NC games (1991, 2003)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships (Big 8: 5; Big 12: 4)
• Kansas W-L: 418-101 (.805)
NORTH CAROLINA 18 years
• 3 NCAA Championships (2005, 2009, 2017)
• 5 Final Fours (2005, 2008, 2009, 2016, 2017); 4 NC games (2005, 2009, 2016, 2017)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships
• UNC W-L: 483-163 (.748)
• CAREER: W-L: 903-264 (.774), 18 Conference RS Championships, 9 Final Fours, 3 NCs
NB: After leaving KU for UNC, Roy's teams were 0-3 against Self's KU squads, all in the NCAA Tournament, and KU won the only meeting since Roy retired to win the 2022 NCAA title. Ironically Fall 2024 Kansas plays UNC in AFH in the second game of the new season, and Self will have the chance to give Kansas the lead in head-to-head competition with UNC while tying Phog with 590 wins at Kansas.
(link)
BILL SELF - THE PAST & THE FUTURE?
Before becoming the head coach at KANSAS, Bill (who turned 61 in December 2023) was head coach at --His first four years as a head coach rejuvenating the Oral Roberts men's basketball program didn't help his W-L record, but that rebuilding set the stage for his move to Tulsa for the next three years. His success there put him in position to accept the Illinois head coaching job in 2000 (after being turned down by Missouri, who hired Quin Snyder instead). After a successful three years at Illinois he stepped up to take over the “Self proclaimed” hot seat at KANSAS in April 2003 when Roy Williams left.
Self still has a long way to go after 31 career seasons to catch and pass Roy in total career wins and be the winningest head coach to ever coach at KANSAS. It will take another 4 seasons if he can maintain his current career average of 28 wins per season.
Of note, in the 14 seasons before AY2017-18 he averaged 29.71-6.29 (.825) per AY.
Those #s included the "rough" (yeah, we are spoiled) first three years with mainly Roy's Boys in year one and those back-to-back NCAA Tournament R1 exits (0-2) in 2005 and 2006.
From AY2006-07 (all Bill's recruits save Jeremy Case) through AY2016-17, Self's teams were 344-64 (31.3W-5.8L per year), an W-L % of .843! (NB: I stopped at AY2016-17 to avoid including the AY2017-18 NCAA penalty season, as such an inclusion would, in my opinion, inaccurately portray his coaching acumen.)
Now the question some folks are asking after what most KU fans would admit was a disappointing AY2023-24 season (yes, again, we . have . been . SPOILED) is how well will Bill manage in this brave new world of NIL and the transfer portal? Personally I think he’ll do great!
How much longer will Bill Self coach?
I'd love to see him coach for another 14 seasons for 45 total seasons coaching (35 at KANSAS), retiring at 75 in 2038 after winning a couple more NCAA titles and winning at least 1000 games in his career (it would take averaging 15 wins a season over the next 14 seasons). (Yeah, I'm asking a lot. I hope he keeps coaching as long as he is happy to and able to do so. Preferably he will finish 40 or more years and hopefully go out on top!
)
We know that after recovering from his March 2023 health crisis, Bill has been really fired up to continue, full speed ahead, to coach at KANSAS and to take the program to (paraphrasing him) "new heights" (which is saying quite a lot!)
2023-04-05: KUSports.com - Bill Self meets with the media about his health, his future & the Kansas basketball roster
"I think the last several weeks I've been able to reflect on a lot of things. The one thing I can tell you without question - I miss my job. I love my job, and I want to do my job for a long time... All this did from a job standpoint was reconfirm how much I love doing what I do... My goal is to take this place to a whole different level that we've never been to before, and we've been to a really high level and I know I need to have my energy and I need to be healthy and feeling good in order to do that." - Bill Self
And 50 days later...
2023-05-25: The Field of 68 podcast - EXCLUSIVE: Bill Self on health scare, offseason additions, the state of college basketball and more!
And of course, he has his lifetime contract...
KUSports.com - Tait: Kansas basketball coach Bill Self signs lifetime contract extension with KU (2021-04-02)
And while this past season did not meet his high standards, he does seem all the more ready to meet the challenges of winning in the future.
So here ‘s to Bill continuing to enjoy his KANSAS career in the years to come!
NB:
AY2021-22 final record was 34-6 - Big 12, Big 12 Tournament and NCAA CHAMPIONS!
AY2022-23 final record was 28-8 - Big 12 Champions!
AY2023-24 final record was 23-11.
The AY2023-24 thread can be found at this link.
0-0 = KANSAS record for AY2024-25.
2 = Wins remaining for Bill to tie Phog as winningest HC in KANSAS history.
5 = Wins remaining for Bill to reach total career win #800
12 = Wins remaining for Bill to reach KU career win #600
108 = Wins remaining for Bill to tie Roy as THE winningest KANSAS Head Coach for TOTAL CAREER
The official NCAA KANSAS and CAREER W-L records for Phog Allen, Roy Williams and Bill Self are reflected below.
NCAA WON-LOST RECORDS OF WINNINGEST KANSAS MEN'S BASKETBALL COACHES
at KU NAME CAREER
590-219 (.729) Phog Allen 746-264 (.739)
588-143 (.804) BILL SELF 795-248 (.762)
418-101 (.805) Roy Williams 903-264 (.774)BACKGROUND
(This section seldom changes during the course of the season, but each new post will have a link back to this origin post for easy reference.)
Last Update: 2024-04-16
I’ve read (but cannot cite a source as I write this) that in his 21 years at KANSAS Bill's teams are second only to Mark Few’s Gonzaga teams in games won. They earned 2 NCAA titles (2008, 2022), at 28-3 were the overwhelmingly consensus #1 team in the country in the COVID-19 shortened 2020 season, made 4* Final Fours (2008, 2012, 2018* and 2022), won 17* Big 12 regular season titles and won 60 games or more over two consecutive seasons eight times.
*The 2018 Final Four appearance and Big 12 regular season and tournament titles were vacated by the NCAA in 2023 due to recruiting violations involving Silvio DeSousa.
BILL SELF AT KANSAS - WINNINGEST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
>=60 WINS over TWO CONSECUTIVE SEASONS (Σ=9 times, but officially 8 after the IRP decision)
BY MOST WINS OVER 2 YEARS CHRONOLOGICALLY BY CONSECUTIVE AYs
70 wins AY2006-07 and AY2007-08 70 wins AY2006-07 and AY2007-08
68 wins AY2009-10 and AY2010-11 64 wins AY2007-08 and AY2008-09
67 wins AY2010-11 and AY2011-12 60 wins AY2008-09 and AY2009-10
64 wins AY2007-08 and AY2008-09 68 wins AY2009-10 and AY2010-11
64 wins AY2015-16 and AY2016-17 67 wins AY2010-11 and AY2011-12
63 wins AY2011-12 and AY2012-13 63 wins AY2011-12 and AY2012-13
60 wins AY2008-09 and AY2009-10 60 wins AY2014-15 and AY2015-16
60 wins AY2014-15 and AY2015-16 64 wins AY2015-16 and AY2016-17More KU History: FORREST CLARE "PHOG" or "DOC" ALLEN & ROY WILLIAMS
PHOG
Phog was forcibly retired after the AY1955-56 season due to a Kansas state law requiring state employees to retire at 70. He petitioned for an exemption so he would be able to coach sophomore Wilt Chamberlain in his NCAA varsity debut season, but was denied, and assistant coach Dick Harp took over as head coach. When Phog retired his record was -
KANSAS 39 years
• 1 NCAA Tournament Championship (1952), 2 Helms National Championships (1922, 1923)
• 3 Final Fours (1940, 1952, 1953) and 3 NC games in four NCAA Tournament appearances (lost in game 1 in 1942 to Colorado) in the first 18 years of NCAA Tournament existence*
• 24 Conference Regular Season Championships
• Career W-L: Kansas 590-219 (.729), total 746-264 (0.739)
* A remarkable feat as from its 1939 inception through the 1950 tournament the NCAAT field consisted of just 8 conference champions. No conference was guaranteed a spot, and not all conference champions made the field (for example, per Sports-refernce.com, only 10 Men's Basketball conferences existed in 1940, so right away two champions were going to be left out). In 1951 the field was expanded to 16, with 2 additional conference champion spots and 6 "at-large" bids available. Beginning in 1953 the tournament expanded to 22 and 5 rounds, with 10 teams getting a first round bye. It fluctuated from 22 to 25 until 1975 when it grew to 32 teams. In 1979 it became 40 teams, 1980 it became 48, 1985 it became 64, and finally (so far) in 2011 it became the current 68. (Source: Wikipedia)
Even when the day comes that Bill passes Phog's totals to become the winningest coach in KANSAS history, Bill will still be just the 2nd winningest men's basketball coach for his whole career to ever coach at KANSAS unless he coaches long enough to pass Roy.
ROY
Roy only stayed at KU long enough to record a 418-101 KANSAS record, but he went on to pass Phog in Career wins with his alma mater. Roy retired April 1, 2021, turning 71 in August of that year. His record after 33 years -
KANSAS 15 years
• 4 Final Fours (1991, 1993, 2002, 2003); 2 NC games (1991, 2003)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships (Big 8: 5; Big 12: 4)
• Kansas W-L: 418-101 (.805)
NORTH CAROLINA 18 years
• 3 NCAA Championships (2005, 2009, 2017)
• 5 Final Fours (2005, 2008, 2009, 2016, 2017); 4 NC games (2005, 2009, 2016, 2017)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships
• UNC W-L: 483-163 (.748)
• CAREER: W-L: 903-264 (.774), 18 Conference RS Championships, 9 Final Fours, 3 NCs
NB: After leaving KU for UNC, Roy's teams were 0-3 against Self's KU squads, all in the NCAA Tournament, and KU won the only meeting since Roy retired to win the 2022 NCAA title. Ironically Fall 2024 Kansas plays UNC in AFH in the second game of the new season, and Self will have the chance to give Kansas the lead in head-to-head competition with UNC while tying Phog with 590 wins at Kansas.
(link)
BILL SELF - THE PAST & THE FUTURE?
Before becoming the head coach at KANSAS, Bill (who turned 61 in December 2023) was head coach at --
1993-97 Oral Roberts (55-54, .505)
1997-00 Tulsa (74-27, .733)
2000-03 Illinois (78-24, .765)
10 Years before KU (207-105, .663)Self still has a long way to go after 31 career seasons to catch and pass Roy in total career wins and be the winningest head coach to ever coach at KANSAS. It will take another 4 seasons if he can maintain his current career average of 28 wins per season.
Of note, in the 14 seasons before AY2017-18 he averaged 29.71-6.29 (.825) per AY.
Those #s included the "rough" (yeah, we are spoiled) first three years with mainly Roy's Boys in year one and those back-to-back NCAA Tournament R1 exits (0-2) in 2005 and 2006.
From AY2006-07 (all Bill's recruits save Jeremy Case) through AY2016-17, Self's teams were 344-64 (31.3W-5.8L per year), an W-L % of .843! (NB: I stopped at AY2016-17 to avoid including the AY2017-18 NCAA penalty season, as such an inclusion would, in my opinion, inaccurately portray his coaching acumen.)
Now the question some folks are asking after what most KU fans would admit was a disappointing AY2023-24 season (yes, again, we . have . been . SPOILED) is how well will Bill manage in this brave new world of NIL and the transfer portal? Personally I think he’ll do great!
How much longer will Bill Self coach?
I'd love to see him coach for another 14 seasons for 45 total seasons coaching (35 at KANSAS), retiring at 75 in 2038 after winning a couple more NCAA titles and winning at least 1000 games in his career (it would take averaging 15 wins a season over the next 14 seasons). (Yeah, I'm asking a lot. I hope he keeps coaching as long as he is happy to and able to do so. Preferably he will finish 40 or more years and hopefully go out on top!
)We know that after recovering from his March 2023 health crisis, Bill has been really fired up to continue, full speed ahead, to coach at KANSAS and to take the program to (paraphrasing him) "new heights" (which is saying quite a lot!)
2023-04-05: KUSports.com - Bill Self meets with the media about his health, his future & the Kansas basketball roster
"I think the last several weeks I've been able to reflect on a lot of things. The one thing I can tell you without question - I miss my job. I love my job, and I want to do my job for a long time... All this did from a job standpoint was reconfirm how much I love doing what I do... My goal is to take this place to a whole different level that we've never been to before, and we've been to a really high level and I know I need to have my energy and I need to be healthy and feeling good in order to do that." - Bill Self
And 50 days later...
2023-05-25: The Field of 68 podcast - EXCLUSIVE: Bill Self on health scare, offseason additions, the state of college basketball and more!
And of course, he has his lifetime contract...
KUSports.com - Tait: Kansas basketball coach Bill Self signs lifetime contract extension with KU (2021-04-02)
And while this past season did not meet his high standards, he does seem all the more ready to meet the challenges of winning in the future.
So here ‘s to Bill continuing to enjoy his KANSAS career in the years to come!
NB:
AY2021-22 final record was 34-6 - Big 12, Big 12 Tournament and NCAA CHAMPIONS!
AY2022-23 final record was 28-8 - Big 12 Champions!
AY2023-24 final record was 23-11.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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