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What a Game...Keeping the Streak Alive

  • hairyhawk
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10 months 2 weeks ago #31938 by hairyhawk
That was a very difficult game. TCU played very good and shot the ball well. As so often seems to happen someone on the visiting team has a career night. Today Mr. Tennyson, a player who averages less than 10 points a game, was 6 of 8 from 3 point land and had 24 points. For the Hawks Mr Dickinson came to play with 30 points and 2 of 3 from beyond the arc. HCBS does a marvelous job in close games. The commentators felt like the elbow to HD face should have been a no call but I agree with the call. If the arm was just coming down it is a no call but he swung it back into HD so that made it a flagrant 1 IMO.
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10 months 2 weeks ago #31940 by NotOstertag
I tend to agree with the announcers here. At the very least, they should have let TCU continue the break before they stopped play to review it.

For the fun of it, I looked up the rule:

A flagrant 1 foul is a result of excessive contact that in nature is categorized as unnecessary or avoidable. The fouled player will receive two shots, and the opposing team will gain possession of the ball.

I don't feel that it was excessive, or avoidable. Sure, a guy could pull his arms in if he no longer had a play at the ball, but that's not always realistic in a live situation when you're spinning and tumbling around. To me, it looked like his arm followed a natural progression, he didn't accellerate things or "flail" any more than anyone would fighting for a loose ball in trafffic.. As I see it it was incidental, and just bad luck (or as it turns out very GOOD luck) that Hunter's head was in the right place at the right time.

Haven't seen another replay to go over it in depth, and even if they hadn't called it, it wouldn't have guaranteed that TCU would have won, but it sure helped us out in what felt like a disproportionate amount. If I'm Coach Dixon, I'm telling my guy he did nothing wrong and to keep hustling and playing hard.

On the upside, Hunter hit the free throws (no guarantee there), DeJuan got the next score, and Hunter iced it with the shot at the rim with 3 seconds to go, all of which were necessary to get the W.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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10 months 2 weeks ago #31946 by HawkErrant
From the replays we saw we (Mrs HE and me) feel it was avoidable *and* unnecessary. Udeh was not just bringing his arm down from a rebound attempt, he deliberately swung it backwards, striking Hunter in the face. Ernest is a good guy, so I’m sure he did not intend to hit Hunter in the face, but he did. It was not part of a basketball play, as the talking heads were discussing. We find it compelling that the three refs seemed to agree on it, not just 2 of the 3.

And although not part of the basketball guidelines, we also think that any blow that lands on a player’s head is being looked at as a minimum flagrant 1. Rather like targeting in football, if the blow lands neck up, it’s a penalty, only question is “is it targeting?” , or in hoops, a flagrant 2. Player safety reigns.

Find it somewhat ironic that Ernest hits the free throws to give his new team the lead over his old team, only to turn around and commit the foul that opened the door for the Jayhawks to walk through to victory.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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10 months 2 weeks ago #31947 by hairyhawk
I hope Kevin McCullar's ankle is not something that is going to linger all year. I am sure he is going to do everything he can to power through it but it is easier when you are healthy.

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10 months 2 weeks ago #31951 by denster
I agree with HawkErrant, from the rules

Flagrant personal fouls. Flagrant fouls are personal fouls that are deemed
to be a more serious offense than a common foul. The penalty for a flagrant
1 foul is two free throws and possession of the ball for a throw-in. The
penalty for a flagrant 2 foul is two free throws, possession of the ball for a
throw-in, and ejection of the offending player.
1. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal
foul that is deemed excessive in nature (unwarranted or too much)
and/or unnecessary (avoidable, uncalled for or not required by the
circumstances of the play), but is not based solely on the severity of the
act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
a) Causing excessive or unnecessary contact with an opponent;
b) Contact with an opponent that is not a legitimate attempt to play the
ball or player;
c) Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score.
Depending on the severity of the contact and the potential for injury,
this type of foul could rise to the level of a flagrant 2 foul;
d) Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
from starting;
e) Contact with a player making a throw-in;
f) Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed
excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2
personal foul (See Rule 4-18.7);
g) Illegal contact caused by a player hooking an opponent over or under
the arm and which may lead the official to believe the contact was
caused by the opponent. Depending on the nature of the contact, or
the result of the contact, this foul could be considered a flagrant 2
foul; and
h) Contact with an opponent that is not the result of a normal
basketball play. “Normal basketball play” is defined as any activity by
a player, including incidental contact, which is generally accepted as that which occurs in a basketball game when the player is attempting to make a legal offensive or defensive play.



Section 18 Art. 7. The following shall be considered not only excessive, but extreme
swinging:
a. When arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung about while using the shoulders as
pivots, and the speed of the extended arm(s) and elbow(s) exceeds that of
the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot; or
b. When the speed and vigor with which the arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung
is such that injury could result if another player were contacted.

Jay Wright said that they made the right call, he also he noted that when the player catching the ball from Udeh looked back he held up and essentially the fast break was over, even thought they had a 5 / 4 advantage, he was setting up half court play and the refs blew the whistle appropriately. When you watch the play at full speed the play looks pretty bad.
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