T Rob in The Rafters

Supposed to happen during the December 9 game against the program from the Hellmouth.

Most fitting… and about time!

Congratulations to Thomas!

And now it's time for my annual pitch...

To summarize the criteria as they exist today, the "guaranteed to hang in the rafters" criteria are earning at least one of:
1. NCAA D1 NPOY
2. NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player
3. Consensus First Team All-American
4. Two time First Team All-American (consensus not required) or
5. Academic All-American of the Year (criteria set by Roy so Vaughn's jersey could be in the rafters)
6. Conference Player of the Year (NB: legitimizes Vaughn selection as he was 1996 Big 8 POY).

In addition to Thomas Robinson, Frank Mason and Devonté Graham, consensus First Team All-Americans who do not yet have jerseys hanging in the rafters are
1909– Tommy Johnson, forward
1915– Ralph Sproull, forward
1919– Dutch Lonborg, guard

I have yet to find a source listing uniform numbers for these guys. Even if they had no uniform #s back then, jerseys with their names on them should still be up there.

Finally, as Coach Self has repeatedly said, the criteria are "guidelines", not hard and fast minimum requirements.

SO I make my pitch once again for putting Big Dave McCormack's jersey in the heavens of AFH.

But for an NCAA mismanagement screw up of their new Final Four Most Outstanding Player voting process, Big Dave would have been named the FF MOP in 2022 after his dominating game against Villanova in the National Semifinal and his clutch performance in the title game. But despite a new computerized internet voting system that would have allowed votes to be cast up to the end of the game and STILL have the votes counted and awardee determined before the awards announcements, the NABC/Basketball Writers and NCAA required that the votes had to be in with 5 minutes left in the game. Result - Ochai Agbaji edged out Big Dave for the MOP. because some voters -- who had not recognized that Dave's offensive and defensive presence was tremendous throughout the FF (+41 +/- when he was on the floor in those two games), cast their votes before Dave's heroics in the last two minutes of the title game eliminated any doubt who deserved the award.


EDITED TO ADD STAT SUPPORT
For the details, see CorpusJayhawk's excellent post in the April 2022 thread MOP

BIG DAVE McCORMACK 2022 FINAL FOUR MOP CLAIM STATISTSICS

LEADING KU SCORER BOTH GAMES
25 v Villanova
15 v UNC (tied with Jalen Wilson)

INCREDIBLE +/- RATING
DAVE in the game, KU was
+25 v Villanova
+16 v UNC
+41 FF
DAVE on the bench, KU was
-9 v Villanova
-13 v UNC
-22 FF

On a per minute basis for both games of the Final Four...

IN THE GAME
0.70 more KU points per minute than Opponent with DAVE in
0.40 more KU points per minute than Opponent with Dajuan in
0.31 more KU points per minute than Opponent with Wilson in
0.25 more KU points per minute than Opponent with Agbaji in
0.20 more KU points per minute than Opponent with Braun in
-0.09 more KU points per minute than Opponent with Remy Martin in

ON THE BENCH
-1.02 KU points per minute than Opponent with DAVE benched
-0.35 KU points per minute than Opponent with Wilson benched
-0.18 KU points per minute than Opponent with Dajuan benched
0.14 KU points per minute than Opponent with Agbaji benched
0.60 KU points per minute than Opponent with Braun benched
0.61 KU points per minute than Opponent with Remy Martin benched

I added the stats supporting DAVE as MOP, to include link to CorpusJayhawk's APRIL 2022 +/- FF analysis.

KUAthletics.com: Kansas to Retire Two Jerseys in 2023-24 Beginning with Thomas Robinson, Dec. 9

The great news for T Rob and his family, friends and fans is finally formally announced (first breath of this honor came from a T Rob tweet). AND it is augmented with the further great news that later in AY2023-24 the family, friends and fans of "old school" KU hoopster and Naismith Basketball Hall of Famer Bill "Skinny" Johnson will get to see his jersey ascend. The ceremony is planned for the Big Monday game against Cincinnati on January 22.

I confess that Johnson was not on my "Rafters Radar" as -- despite his great KU career -- he did not meet any of the "guaranteed" criteria. He truly is an example of someone who, as HCBS says, deserves to be up there for his performance as a Jayhawk.

I hope there are plans in the works to get the jerseys of Tommy Johnson, Ralph Sproull and Dutch Lonborg -- who do meet the guaranteed criteria -- in the Rafters in the not too distant future.

I posted the previous comment this morning.

This afternoon I received an email in reply to my November 22 2023 missive to HCBS regarding Tommy Johnson, Ralph Sproull, Dutch Lonborg and BIG DAVE having their jerseys in The Rafters. It was from Andrea Norris, director of the Williams Education Fund K Club. She oversees our former student athlete association and does all things Hall of Fame, Jersey Retirements and reunions.

BLUF: she assures me that Tommy Johnson, Ralph Sproull and Dutch Lonborg are on their list to be approved by the K Club board.
ROCK CHALK!

She writes that thanks to the minimum 5 year post-KU wait, COVID-19 and scheduling issues with honorees and their families, they have a backlog of qualified players (in addition to #BIFM and D.Graham, I would imagine everyone not already up there that made Conference Player of the Year in the past since that became a "guaranteed" criterion in 2020, plus anyone else who deserves to be up there even if they did not meet one of the "guaranteed" criteria). And they do not want to diminish the experience by having too many honors in one season (which does appeal to me).

As for BIG DAVE, she writes his is a case they they will have to consider in the future once the 5 year minimum has passed. She did note that she thinks many would agree with me -- including HCBS -- that BIG DAVE should be up there,

YES!!!

I wrote her back to say thank you, and that her email made my day!
Which was true.

Hope we all live long enough to see them all flying high in The Phog!

Now -- about that 2020 COVID-19 Year Consensus #1 banner...

*#1 Final 2020 Regular Season AP, Coaches, KenPom, Sagarin, NET, BPI, RPI & DPPI

USAF J, I understand the sentiment.

However, it is of note to me that NCAA FF MOP was one of the initial criteria KU set when the Rafters were established, so clearly it was important to them -- and factually it is a rarity worthy of note. It is even rarer than NPOY, as there is only one NCAA FF MOP each year (barring a tie vote), but there are several organizations awarding NPOY, so there can be more than one NPOY each year.

And honestly, I would not be adverse to having someone who earned NCAA *Regional* MOP up there either, because without them the team doesn't advance to the Final Four and a chance for the title.

I would not have any major issues, however, with making that criteria "Regional MOP for an eventual title winning team".

Why?

Because, despite his short actual playing time for KU, Remy Martin, even as a reserve, was a HUGE difference maker for Kansas in the 2022 tournament. Without his efforts in the Midwest Regional games, nobody on KU gets the chance to shine in the Final Four. And even though his Final Four performances were not the same as his regional performances, far too many people have forgotten Remy's fantastic recovery block of Caleb Love's layup attempt after Love beat him to the basket with the score KU 70 UNC 69 and just 55 seconds left in the game.

©Bob Donnan-USAToday Sports

With that block and BIG DAVE's final bucket over Brady Manek with :22 to go, UNC is shooting 3s -- 3 huge misses -- to tie instead of 2s to win.

As a result of that and his Midwest Regional MOP performance, I would have NO issues with "MARTIN 11" hanging in the rafters as well, despite the brevity of his KU career.

But that may be a bridge too far.

In my opinion BIG DAVE, who played with injury for much of his KU career and most of his senior year, is not.

Focusing on just one part of his impact in the title game, he held UNC season scoring leading Armando Bacot to just 5 points. Bacot got 10 of his total 15 points in the 11+ minutes BIG DAVE was on the bench. Bacot did not score a basket in H2 when BIG DAVE played all but 1 minute. Bacot made 6-9 H1 free throws by attacking KU's backups in the paint while BIG DAVE sat out, then 3-4 free throws in H2. Bacot's final stats were 3-13 FGM/A and 9-13 FTM/A, but just 1-11 FGM/A and 3-4 FTM/A with BIG DAVE on the floor.

+45 +/- in the Final Four (team leading by a country mile +25 Nova, +16 UNC), leading scorer for KU in both games and the final four points to win the title game -- the first bucket giving KU the lead with 1:21 to go and the second at :22 forcing those missed 3s by UNC -- well, they may not be the most points or the most rebounds or the most whatever in a game, but I would be willing to bet that in KU history only Wilt and Danny had more impact on their respective team's performance in the Final Four than BIG DAVE did in 2022. I'll throw BH Born in there as well (1953 NCAA FF MOP, along with Wilt just one of 11 players to be so honored despite his team not winning the NC).

NCAA FINAL FOUR MOST OUTSTANDING PLAYERS WHO DID NOT PLAY FOR CHAMPIONSource: www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article...players-1939-present

And with that, I'll get off my soapbox.

And yet in the almost 12 minutes when Dave was sitting Bacot still managed to almost reach his season average in points, and during that game he passed his season average in rebounds, all playing on a bum ankle. Credit where due, the kid was a warrior in that game. But for that late last step where he twisted his ankle again and had to leave with about a minute left in the game -- right after Dave had gone over him to hit the go ahead basket -- the outcome might have been different. But even with that bum ankle, throughout the game Bacot was a force when Dave was not on the floor.

That's where the hat gets placed. That, and Dave's huge +/- differential in *both* the Villanova (+25) and UNC (+16) games.

The award is *supposed* to be about BOTH games, not just the title game.

And do not forget that Dave had been playing hurt all season. The mentions of his daily treatments just to be able to play were not uncommon in the media at the time. That tends to balance out the "Bacot played hurt" argument.

Socalhawk wrote: HE, you are correct, the award is for both games. Which is why Wilt won it in 57 without winning the final game. I wonder if anyone else won the award without winning the championship?
I also believe Sherron is in the discussion given his consistently high level of play and of course the final 3 minutes of the final were all about his steals, saves and “the pass”.

In my earlier comment in this thread I listed the 11 players who were recognized as FF MOP even though their school did not win the title.

www.rockchalk.com/index.php/forum/basket...in-the-rafters#31805

BTW, I wanted to let you know that I received a follow-up email from KU on the “Who’s Hanging?” and criteria questions I asked.

Based on that email, in addition to the “guaranteed 6”, the board considers these criteria “guaranteed” as well — and they are willing to look at more, I’m sure, given some of the jerseys already hanging*…

•Being first team AA, even once, even if not NCAA “consensus” status.

•Being elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. (And why in the world is this not a formal “guaranteed” criteria?)

From the email: “William Johnson, being retired the 22nd met the primary criteria with first team all American and inducted into the Naismith HOF!”

I note that “Skinny” Johnson was only named a first team AA by one NCAA recognized entity of his day, College Humor Magazine. Here’s the first paragraph of his KUAthletics.com writeup…

The dominant collegiate center of his time, Johnson, who wore No. 33 while at Kansas, achieved All-American status in 1933 as he led the Jayhawks to three-consecutive Big Six Conference title under head coach Phog Allen. From Oklahoma City, Johnson, who stood 6-foot-4, was considered a giant in an era when the center jump after each basket was a part of the game, a rule that was later eliminated in 1937.

Here is his NBHOF writeup.
Naismith Memorial Basketball HOF: William “Skinny” Johnson

* Remember that Self is on record that the "guaranteed" criteria are only guidelines. For examples where the criteria were not followed to the letter, see Kirk Hinrich's #10, Walt Wesley's #13, Darnell Valentine's #14, Jo Jo White and Bud Stallworth's #15, Brandon Rush's #25, Bill Bridges' #32, Dave Robisch’s #40 and even Cole Aldrich's #45.
(Yes, Cole qualifies under Roy's Rule, and I believe he belongs up there, but I think that rule should be rescinded, as it is not about what happened on the court. Recognize Academic AAs elsewhere in The Phog. I’m proud of what they did in the classroom while undertaking the workload of being a college athlete, and support recognizing our Academic AAs. But in my opinion The Rafters should be reserved for the players that meet the court work criteria, with the Caretaker being able to make exceptions as warranted. As Coach Self has said, “the greatest players that play here deserve to be considered for that,” whether or not they were in our estimation adequately recognized by the national media for their impact on KANSAS Men’s or Women’s basketball.