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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Bill Self and Roy Williams
1 year 1 month ago - 1 year 1 month ago #31519
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
There are times I have to pinch myself to be sure I am not dreaming.
After winning it all in 1988, KANSAS Men's Basketball had to start over with an unproven, literally untested new head coach in Roy Williams.
By the time he left 15 years later Roy had proven himself to be one of the best in the game, but had yet to earn that coveted NC.
And his departure had us all wondering who we were going to get to replace him and his 80.8% KU winning record?
Enter Bill Self... and this is why today I am pinching myself.
Starting with Larry Brown taking over the program 40 years ago for the 1983-84 season, KANSAS has had 3 of the best head coaches to ever walk the sidelines in charge of our beloved Jayhawks.
Roy left as the second winningest and arguably the second best head coach in KU history.
Had he won an NC in one of his 4 trips to the Final Four, folks might have argued for him being the best, even over the legendary Forrest C. "Phog" Allen.
But alas, Roy did not.
As we enter the 21st year of Self's career at KANSAS, having already earned 2 NCAA titles, he is on the doorstep (25 Ws) of Phog's all-time 590 KU wins record.
Bill has passed Roy in KU Wins and KU NCs, but Roy (who coached for 15+18=33 years at KU & UNC) still has the lead in overall NCs (3 in 5 FFs with UNC, 9 FFs overall) and in all-time career wins and W-L%.
RW 903-264 (.774) (note that his KU WL was 418-101 (.808), but he was 485-163 (.748) at UNC)
BS 772-237 (.765) and his KU % is 565-132 (.811) *after* accounting for the vacated 15 Ws.
Diff 131-27 (.829)
Self W-L average per year per career
28.3-6.6 (.811) (29.0-6.6 (.815) before the IRP).
Allowing for the FBI investigation news negatively impacting KU recruiting starting in late 2017,
From AY2017-18 on Self averaged
27.33-7.33 (.789) per AY before the V15W.
In the 14 seasons before AY2017-18 he averaged
29.71-6.29 (.825) per AY.
Those last #s included the "rough" (yeah, we are spoiled) first three years with mainly Roy's Boys in year one and those back-to-back NCAAT R1 exits (0-2) in 2005 and 2006.
If you don't include those first three "adjustment" seasons, from AY2006-07 through AY2016-17, Self's teams were
344-64 (31.3W-5.8L per year), averaging .843!
Given the current status of the program, Bill's health, the NCAA (case over, NIL, etc.) and the prospects for future KU recruiting and portal success, I like Bill's chances to pass Roy in career wins over the next FOUR years.
I'd love to see him pass Roy in NCs as well...
After winning it all in 1988, KANSAS Men's Basketball had to start over with an unproven, literally untested new head coach in Roy Williams.
By the time he left 15 years later Roy had proven himself to be one of the best in the game, but had yet to earn that coveted NC.
And his departure had us all wondering who we were going to get to replace him and his 80.8% KU winning record?
Enter Bill Self... and this is why today I am pinching myself.
Starting with Larry Brown taking over the program 40 years ago for the 1983-84 season, KANSAS has had 3 of the best head coaches to ever walk the sidelines in charge of our beloved Jayhawks.
Roy left as the second winningest and arguably the second best head coach in KU history.
Had he won an NC in one of his 4 trips to the Final Four, folks might have argued for him being the best, even over the legendary Forrest C. "Phog" Allen.
But alas, Roy did not.
As we enter the 21st year of Self's career at KANSAS, having already earned 2 NCAA titles, he is on the doorstep (25 Ws) of Phog's all-time 590 KU wins record.
Bill has passed Roy in KU Wins and KU NCs, but Roy (who coached for 15+18=33 years at KU & UNC) still has the lead in overall NCs (3 in 5 FFs with UNC, 9 FFs overall) and in all-time career wins and W-L%.
RW 903-264 (.774) (note that his KU WL was 418-101 (.808), but he was 485-163 (.748) at UNC)
BS 772-237 (.765) and his KU % is 565-132 (.811) *after* accounting for the vacated 15 Ws.
Diff 131-27 (.829)
Self W-L average per year per career
28.3-6.6 (.811) (29.0-6.6 (.815) before the IRP).
Allowing for the FBI investigation news negatively impacting KU recruiting starting in late 2017,
From AY2017-18 on Self averaged
27.33-7.33 (.789) per AY before the V15W.
In the 14 seasons before AY2017-18 he averaged
29.71-6.29 (.825) per AY.
Those last #s included the "rough" (yeah, we are spoiled) first three years with mainly Roy's Boys in year one and those back-to-back NCAAT R1 exits (0-2) in 2005 and 2006.
If you don't include those first three "adjustment" seasons, from AY2006-07 through AY2016-17, Self's teams were
344-64 (31.3W-5.8L per year), averaging .843!
Given the current status of the program, Bill's health, the NCAA (case over, NIL, etc.) and the prospects for future KU recruiting and portal success, I like Bill's chances to pass Roy in career wins over the next FOUR years.
I'd love to see him pass Roy in NCs as well...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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