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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Debate while we wait - worst season UK 2013, UNC 2023?
- NotOstertag
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1 year 8 months ago #30596
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
With UNC losing last night there's a very good chance that they won't make the tournament. While I'm running out of kleenex with all of my tears (not) it's also been postited that this year's Tar Heels are the biggest disappointment in the history of the modern era of the NCAA having gone from #1 preseaon to unranked to not making the tournament in the course of one season.
While this may be true, the 2012-13 version of Kentucky is certainly a contender for this dubious title. Coming off a national championship the previous year, and under the expert tutilidge of John ("I didn't do it!") Calapari (aka "The Squid") the Wildcats started the season at #3, and also fell out of the polls and missed the NCAA's. The "One Shining Moment" they experienced was a 1st round NIT loss to Robert Morris, apparently a guy from Moon Township PA with a decent jumpshot. Anyway, ol Bobby M sent Kentucky packing and into 72 hours of the best anti-UK tweets I've ever witnessed.
We don't know how UNC's season will end (how I'd love to have them draw Roberto Morris himself this year) but it's worse examining who stunk up the joint more.
First, let's look at weekly rankings:
Week---UNC---UK
P---1---3
W2--1---3
W3--1---8
W4--18--8
W5-out-out
W6-out-out
W7-out-out
W8-25-out
W9-out-out
W10-out-out
....
W15-out-25
W16-out-out
Neither returned after week 16. Both teams left the rankings after week 4 of each season. UNC fell 17 spots after week 3 and then dropped the final 8 spots after week 4. UK only dropped 5 spots after week 2 and then dropped 18 more the next week. UK's demise looks a little more gradual, but that's because they started their fall at #3. Ironically both made one last appearance at #25: UNC in week 8 and UK in week 15. Kind of the last gasps of a dying person with those.
We don't know exactly how UNC will finish, but I'd argue that the Squid-led 2013 team still takes the all time disappointment crown and that UNC has some work to do to knock them off. Both team started the year with stacked teams, but UK was also coming off a NC. UK also had a coach that had actually won a NC as well as having been to many final fours. Finally, UK's program was "stable" in that the same coaching staff was in place.
Compare that to UNC who has a new head coach and coaching staff. UNC was in the final last year, but only played the first 20 minutes.
From my vantage point, as much as Carolina has stunk it up this year, to even get close to the amazing feat that UK pulled off in 2013, they not only need to go down in the first game of the NIT, but it also needs to be a blowout, AND has to be a worse team than Robert Morris (UK was a 1 seed in the NIT, so they played an NIT bottom feeder), AND something absurdly comical needs to happen (maybe Ol Roy storms the court and is beaten into submission by the Hubert Davis' purse-weilding wife). Dare to dream.
Nevertheless, never say never. UNC is on the cusp of being the saddest disappointment in NCAA history, but I don't quite think they're there yet.
Thoughts?
While this may be true, the 2012-13 version of Kentucky is certainly a contender for this dubious title. Coming off a national championship the previous year, and under the expert tutilidge of John ("I didn't do it!") Calapari (aka "The Squid") the Wildcats started the season at #3, and also fell out of the polls and missed the NCAA's. The "One Shining Moment" they experienced was a 1st round NIT loss to Robert Morris, apparently a guy from Moon Township PA with a decent jumpshot. Anyway, ol Bobby M sent Kentucky packing and into 72 hours of the best anti-UK tweets I've ever witnessed.
We don't know how UNC's season will end (how I'd love to have them draw Roberto Morris himself this year) but it's worse examining who stunk up the joint more.
First, let's look at weekly rankings:
Week---UNC---UK
P---1---3
W2--1---3
W3--1---8
W4--18--8
W5-out-out
W6-out-out
W7-out-out
W8-25-out
W9-out-out
W10-out-out
....
W15-out-25
W16-out-out
Neither returned after week 16. Both teams left the rankings after week 4 of each season. UNC fell 17 spots after week 3 and then dropped the final 8 spots after week 4. UK only dropped 5 spots after week 2 and then dropped 18 more the next week. UK's demise looks a little more gradual, but that's because they started their fall at #3. Ironically both made one last appearance at #25: UNC in week 8 and UK in week 15. Kind of the last gasps of a dying person with those.
We don't know exactly how UNC will finish, but I'd argue that the Squid-led 2013 team still takes the all time disappointment crown and that UNC has some work to do to knock them off. Both team started the year with stacked teams, but UK was also coming off a NC. UK also had a coach that had actually won a NC as well as having been to many final fours. Finally, UK's program was "stable" in that the same coaching staff was in place.
Compare that to UNC who has a new head coach and coaching staff. UNC was in the final last year, but only played the first 20 minutes.
From my vantage point, as much as Carolina has stunk it up this year, to even get close to the amazing feat that UK pulled off in 2013, they not only need to go down in the first game of the NIT, but it also needs to be a blowout, AND has to be a worse team than Robert Morris (UK was a 1 seed in the NIT, so they played an NIT bottom feeder), AND something absurdly comical needs to happen (maybe Ol Roy storms the court and is beaten into submission by the Hubert Davis' purse-weilding wife). Dare to dream.
Nevertheless, never say never. UNC is on the cusp of being the saddest disappointment in NCAA history, but I don't quite think they're there yet.
Thoughts?
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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- HawkErrant
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- b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
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1 year 8 months ago #30600
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
UK 2013, not even close, except for one small detail... I -- and a lot of folks I know -- wasn't "disappointed" with UK 2013 at all.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- hairyhawk
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1 year 8 months ago #30601
by hairyhawk
I wouldn't exactly say I was missing them in the top 25.
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- AZhawk87
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1 year 8 months ago #30605
by AZhawk87
Not knowing what UK had in terms of returning players. I’d have to go with UNC having 4 returning starters off a Nat’l finals team, and failing miserably.
Can you imagine if we’d lost only Ochai from last year, and then not making the tourney this year with Braun, Big Dave, Wilson, Harris and Dick. With KJ, McCullar and Udeh coming off the bench.
Can you imagine if we’d lost only Ochai from last year, and then not making the tourney this year with Braun, Big Dave, Wilson, Harris and Dick. With KJ, McCullar and Udeh coming off the bench.
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- NotOstertag
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1 year 8 months ago #30611
by NotOstertag
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
I should have clarified: dissapointing to their fans. Watching UK go down in the NIT was the opposite of "disappointing".
As for departing talent, UK was always a one-and-done joint, so they lost a bunch of starters and replaced them with a new class of 5 star recruits and future NBA players. Regardless, they were ranked #3, which they wouldn't have been if the writers would have thought the squid's cupboard was bare.
Nevertheless, all valid points. I still say UNC has work to do to be the biggest losers. But hey, I believe in them.
As for departing talent, UK was always a one-and-done joint, so they lost a bunch of starters and replaced them with a new class of 5 star recruits and future NBA players. Regardless, they were ranked #3, which they wouldn't have been if the writers would have thought the squid's cupboard was bare.
Nevertheless, all valid points. I still say UNC has work to do to be the biggest losers. But hey, I believe in them.
"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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