No good, no good at all.

AZhawk87 wrote: Despite some very poor shooting and overall al sloppy game, we came out OK. KSt knows they escaped, and with our comeback and almost victory, their players know we’re still the team to beat.

Some observations:

1. Despite being a HOF coach and the best play caller ever to get a bucket out of timeouts, Self is woefully bad at scheming last second shots. This isn’t sour grapes after one loss. I’ve said this for years on this board, and last night was more the norm than the exception. We didn’t even get shots off at end of reg or OT. Don’t know what it is, but we are terrible running down the clock and getting any shot, let alone a good one.

I'll add my two bucks to your #1.

IMO Self failed in this game on several points. Despite this, his players -- who were not at their best either with the exception of JWil, who willed KU to victory until Self took the ball out of his hands with seconds to go in OT -- almost pulled it out.

His significant in-game errors in this game IMO:

1. Kevin McCullar was (and frankly has been lately) off his game (final +/-: -10), and Joe Yesufu was on (+10). By the end of the first half this was clear. The late move KU made in H1 to cut the lead from 14 to 2 came with Joe Yes in at the 8:48 mark for KM. At 1:50 KM subbed in for Yes and KState finished the half up 5. But ok, start KM H2 to see if he shakes off the first half bugaboos, he's done it before. But by 15:00 to go it was clear he was just off, and Yes should have been in then, but was not for another 5 minutes, and then only when KM picked up PF4.

2. Zach Clemence should not have seen PT in H2. He played like a deer in the headlights in H1, and continued so when put in H2. Eijofor needed to see more PT. Yes, he had that one turnover, but that was actually Dajuan's fault, he should never have made that pass with the defender right there. Zuby got charged with it because he got his hands on it. At least that's the only reason I can think of, because on replay it was clear to me that it was Dajuan's poor judgement that gave the defender the chance to steal it.

3. Speaking of Dajuan, he never looked right to me after his headplant. He should not have been back in the game. I had been telling my wife that he needed to go for headscans after such a trauma, and I was shocked to see him reenter the game just a few minutes later. I hope he gets those scans today, I am worried about him.

4. My personal bugaboo about head coaches in hoops and football -- calling last second timeouts. Too many times I have seen those timeouts result in the team losing the game because the coach's plan failed. Granted, as you noted Self is the master of points made after the timeout, but as a rule never, NEVER take the ball out of the hands of your hot shooter. And JWil was wide open from downtown with the ball in his hands when Self called timeout. Made me long for "Never call timeout, let them play through it" Roy for a moment ... or two ... etc., etc..

Those were his in-game errors. Biggest error season to date?

It is now clear that KU has failed to develop Eijofor and Udeh to the point where Self is comfortable with them being in the game ahead of Clemence, who frankly has only been impressive in the negative sense (per your AAU point). I really, really want the kid to succeed, but he has not shown he has "it "- the mental and physical strength and toughness to make it at the major D1 level, or even the skills (but the lack of the former severely hampers the execution of the latter). .


Yes, KU would have won in regulation if our guys did better from the free throw line (24-34: KM 0-2; KJ 5-10)

Yes, KU would have won it in regulation if our guys did better from the arc (6-29 game, 5-25 Reg: JWil 2-7; Yes 1-3, DH 1-6; GD 1-7; KM 0-2; OT: JWil 1-3; GD 0-1)

But also Yes, KU probably wins the game in OT if Self does not call timeout as Wilson is shooting his called off made 3.

Lots of ifs there. But the last one proved to be fatal.

Even a Hall of Fame coach makes mistakes on occasion.
Sometimes they result in a lost game.

An addition to my previous comments --

Yes, it's easy for us as armchair head coaches to make these calls after the fact, but I note here for the record that konza63 and I were having the exact same conversation via text as the game was progressing, both of us calling for KM to be benched and Zuby in instead of Zach for KJ in H2. We talked about Dajuan needing more attention after his headplant (with me advocating get DH to a doctor for scans and going BP Jr and Joe Yes the rest of the way) and we both immediately bemoaned the OT timeout.

The only difference in what we were saying during the game and what I posted above is that my comments above include the data supporting our contentions.

That was a very tough loss to swallow - not because our guys didn't show a ton of fight, grit, and resiliency, but because despite all of the mistakes and problems we failed to get the W in OT and lost to the most toxic (in terms of anti-KU) fan base in the Big 12. The fact that they are on Cloud Nine, that they appear to have hit a home run with their coaching hire, and that I mistakenly watched a video of him up on the scorer's table (a la Beasley in that heinous court-storming win back in the day) pumping his fist and screaming KSU! KSU! KSU! into the mike makes me want to puke.

But setting the emotion of the loss aside, I don't have much more to offer beyond what's been said, other than this:

I really love this year's team - or have up to this point. But let's face it, we've been living on the edge for weeks now. The 16-1 record heading into last night's game could easily have been 13-4 just based on the Big 12 wins we've eked out. That created, at least in me, some false sense of confidence and security that this team was not just good, but potentially elite - as in eligible to make a run at a Natty repeat. After last night, I think my expectations have fallen back down to Earth a bit, and the reason why centers on the following:

* When Gradey is off in his shooting or is blanketed on a given night, we literally only have one legit scoring option outside of KJ inside. That's Jalen. Dajuan is too reluctant to shoot the 3 often enough, and he has yet to figure out that the next major progression in his game is to obsess over Frank Mason videos to learn how to attack the rim and finish strongly - rather than launch soft, low-percentage floaters from 7 feet or throw up high-bank prayers (like the ISU win last year - pretty much a crapshoot shot) from 4 feet to the right of the rim while flying out of bounds. (Love Dajuan, but seriously, that rim attacking and finishing game is the one thing that would take him from good to great in all phases) Kevin? Ugh. Don't get me started on him as a consistent offensive threat. Which takes me to my next concern...

* Self loves defense, and will typically favor that over offense 9 times out of 10, as it pertains to PT. This explains why Kevin is on the floor as a starter and for massive amounts of minutes, even when he is absolutely putrid - and actually a liability - on offense on many occasions. I have nothing against the guy and would love to see him excel, but I've seen enough to know that, when KU plays a team like Tennessee or KSU (VERY athletic and disruptive), he wilts faster than a dandelion that's been sprayed with Roundup. Which takes me to my next concern...

* As HawkE pointed out in this thread, for somewhat inexplicable reasons last night, Self refused to recognize the obvious - that Kevin was completely flummoxed by the intensive atmosphere and KSU's tenacity - and he refused to go with the hotter, surer hand in Yesufu. I won't repeat HawkE's solid data to support the eye test, which is that Joe did well in relief (when Kevin hit foul trouble in H1) and yet Self wouldn't go to him when Kevin continued to struggle in H2. He refused to insert Joe until Kevin had fouled out - and by then it was too late for Joe to have any rhythm to noticeably affect OT. The same pattern was on display with Clemence. Within 15 seconds of his first entry into the game, you could tell that he was noticeably uncomfortable against this KSU team. He wasn't sure-handed, he wasn't sure where he was supposed to be, he was just out of his league. Which takes me to the final concern...

* Self and the staff have done a pretty abysmal job at playing, testing, and developing our bench talent beyond the guys from last year - Bobby and Joe. We have two high-level McDonalds All-American recruits (MJ and Udeh) - who literally cannot sniff the floor. I know MJ has been hurt here and there, but he was suited up last night and didn't get a whiff. Both of those guys have some athleticism that would be nice to try out - or have tried out, as in past tense, pre-Big 12 League play, to get them adequate minutes, allow them to work through mistakes, learn the system, etc. But here we now are, with Self clinging to basically a 7-man rotation (8-man with Clemence to spell KJ if he's spent or in foul trouble). That's a lot of talent sitting over on the bench. It makes me worry not only as to whether they might ultimately get frustrated and transfer out...and also that other high-level recruits will look at this and say "Whoa, not gonna go there!"...but also that it means we lack needed depth. Which is my final point...

* JoJoHawk absolutely nailed it with the assessment on this score:

They mentioned on the telecast last night that we have a short bench. HCBS seems comfortable only going 6-7 deep. This is a problem that B12 opponents are targeting. Very physical games with intent of getting our starters out of game. Worked well for KSU last night. I think this is why offense has been sluggish in league. Inexperience on the floor was detrimental to our end of regulation and end of OT possessions. Having KJ or McCullar out there and in correct positions on floor would have made a huge difference. We need another 5 to step up and - what’s the deal with Rice?

Bingo. Bullseye.

I won't belabor the above anymore than I have, and DO want to emphasize that I love this team and believe in them. They are much better in the W-L column than I thought they'd be at this stage, but I do think we've been living on borrowed time a bit and that fatigue from the rough-and-tumble Big 12 league and schedule is already rearing its ugly head. That immediately takes you to the issue of depth and proper development of those premier athletes and recruits riding the pine. Very concerned about that, for our ultimate ceiling this year and (barring a change soon by Self), and for what it means regarding their contentment, their off-season decisions, and our recruiting of 5-star talent.

As Belichick would say, On to Cincinnati...

I'm just now hopping back on this thread, and wanted to quickly respond to your first response after my post, Corpus. That was extremely solid analysis, as always, and I could not agree more about the pivotal role of KJ - and the cavernous drop-off when he goes out. I'll get into this issue of "balancing" the goal of winning now (winning every game) versus developing your needed backups - which inevitably means allowing them to play through some mistakes in order to progress. (As we all saw with KJ last year - and look where he is now! Wow. Just. Wow. Stud!)

I also violently agree (haha) with your closing point about the ball HAVING to be in Jalen's hands at the end. From postgame reports, it sounds like that's where Bobby was supposed to go, but when it didn't look open he went to Dajuan - in a triple team and dead zone part of the court, no less. Very bad decision, but perhaps Jalen was guarded so well that he couldn't go there for fear of a certain steal. That being said, per your point, why not just inbounds it directly to Jalen and let him do his thing? I'm sure Self thought about that one long and hard on the bus ride home.

Again, good stuff. I'll read the rest of the thread now.

LKF_HAWK: Concur on the pain of losing to the inferiority complex-riddled Purps. It is what it is. Sadly, Statie appears to have hit a home run with the Tang hire and he obviously did one heck of job mining the transfer portal to quickly build a very strong team. (We can gripe about that reality - that most of his guys aren't student recruits but portal ringers he brought in - but it's part of the landscape now, as we have seen with our own Lance Leipold in football)

RE: the F-KU chant, HawkE just sent me a tweet this morning of the Misery student section chanting that loudly last night, during their win over Arkansas. Dios Mio... Looks like Tang's revealing statement to the KSU fan base - that KU has been living rent-free in their heads for years, and they need to get over the toxicity - is alive and well in Columbia as well. But is it not hilarious that that poverty fan base has the audacity to cheer that in a non-KU game (playing in a non-KU league, the SEC) after KU beat the ever-loving snot out of them at their arena? You just can't make this stuff up...

Great points, Corpus, in your second post - about us playing to the predicted outcome of the game against a very solid team. Points very well taken.

If we invoke the stock market adage that past performance is no guarantee of future results for just one moment, I think what concerns me a little going forward is this:

* Prior to the KSU loss, KU had barely eked out wins - by the skin of its teeth - against TTU, OSU, OU, and ISU. Of that bunch, only ISU is objectively in our upper tier in the league this year. So we've been winning, but living on the edge in doing so - with literally one shot or zebra crunch-time call here or there making the difference between Ws and Ls.

* KSU might have hit on the best formula for flummoxing KU on Tuesday night - force us into a highly physical game that either fatigues our starters or causes major foul troubles for same - or both. (KSU hit the jackpot on this Tuesday, causing both exhaustion - which no doubt contributed to tired legs and poor shooting numbers - and 3 starters to foul out) The strategy here is force KU to go to bench players for which there is a major drop-off. (Most notably at the 5 spot) Expect to see copycats of this approach in what is already a very physical league going forward. (I will just note that there were 49 fouls called in the UT-ISU game Tuesday night, for reference: this foul-fest and physical play isn't going away, and especially for KU since everyone will have watched the KSU tape and witnessed how it flummoxed us)

* KU hasn't adequately developed its bench players at the 5 spot. AND Self hasn't yet figured out the best 5 backup for specific teams and matchups when KJ needs to be spelled or is in foul trouble. (What I mean by the latter is it was patently obvious to even the most casual hoops fan that Clemence was woefully out of his element - athletically - against a fast, athletic KSU squad the other night, yet Self went with him over Ejiofor owing to caution and conservatism) The reluctance to figure out the 5 backup in November and December - by getting them slightly more minutes and allowing them to play through some mistakes, get in a rhythm, and then figure out who our best option is going forward - is a concern.

* Self is sticking with Kevin for too long out of the gate in games where we get down big early, and in which Kevin is a no-show offensively. (And where his liability on O offsets what we might be getting from his D) I think the guy staring us in the face on this is Yesufu, frankly, but for whatever reason on Tuesday night Self never got comfortable with him spelling KM when the latter got into foul trouble in the first half. (From everything I saw, and that HawkE noted in his game sequence recap, Joe was stellar in relief in H1) Kevin didn't look much better in H2, and yet he remained in the entire half until he fouled out - which put Joe into the game at a late stage, with no rhythm or feel for the game at all. This is concerning, in my book. And if Self doesn't think Joe is the guy there, as an additional offensive weapon, it harkens back to MJ not developing, either, as that guy. (Yes, he's been injured, but he was suited up the other night)

With the above in mind, I want to step back a bit and make a larger (and I think relevant) point - if I may.

I want to start by underscoring that I have complete faith in Self. With that as a preface, I feel like, in recent years, he's opened up a bit more with respect to his persona - as it relates to in-season team prep and evolution, winning versus losing (his psychology around that and risk), and the balancing of the two. Something that struck me on this front was an interview he did awhile back (maybe like a month ago?) in which he was kind of thinking out-loud and self-critiquing (pardon the pun) a bit.

To paraphrase his thoughts, he said that there's a balance you have to navigate between seeking to win games (as a natural competitor) in December and January versus setting yourself up to win games in March and April. He observed that it's easy to fall into the former, because you want to win every game, but you also have to think about the latter, because it's the ultimate goal: to be winning in March an April, and putting yourself in position to be on the NC stage. If I recall correctly, it was around that same time that he started talking about KU's ceiling this year being contingent on MJ stepping up and developing a solid second 5 to back up KJ.

The reason I bring this up is I think it's pretty telling - and also fascinating - to get inside our HOF coach's head and see things how he does. Or at least try to a little bit, based on imperfect info and these little snippets we get, along with watching his game and personnel/PT management. Looking at it this way, and knowing that every year he's having to balance these things, gives me great appreciation for his coaching prowess, and his uncanny ability to win a very high percentage of games all year long every year. But it also gives some insight into maybe how he thinks about seasons where KU might have won a league crown, and focused so hard on that, but then fared poorly in the postseason.

The reason I raise this step-back point is that I think he's weighing all of this as we speak, and while he would love to be able to insert an MJ or Ejiofor into games more (or Clemence and Udeh, if Ejiofor isn't what he sees as the best choice), his psychology as a winner and competitor can lead to some in-game caution and a predilection to stick with those he trusts most.

Typically, that tends to work out. But in a game like the one Tuesday night, one could objectively argue that it bit us. In 2 ways, one could argue. First, as noted above, he refused to trust the hotter hand and more composed player in Yesufu (over Kevin) in the 2nd half - after Kevin had laid an egg in the 1st half, Yesufu had spelled him quite nicely and we went on our comeback run, and then Kevin continued to play rather poorly for the long stretch of the 2nd half. And secondly, Self's focus on December wins over in-game experience bench development at the 5 spot bit us in a game in which KJ got into foul trouble and then fouled out. Clemence looked extremely uncomfortable on the floor, and couldn't match up with KSU's athleticism - and Ejiofor wasn't up for the moment, either, despite his frame and athleticism.

Based on Self's public comments, his intensive distaste for losing, and the reality that a lot of Big 12 teams are likely to follow the KSU formula and force us into very physical games (with lots of fouls), I'm pretty confident that the first thing he and his staff talked about Wednesday morning - if not on the bus ride back to Larryville - is how to get more scoring and production from the bench (as it relates to Kevin's sub or subs and best options to sub KJ) and how to balance that need (which is key to our long-term March/April ceiling, and keeping our starters fresh rather than exhausted) with winning games in the present. Games that are coming fast and furious and involve a true gauntlet of foes.

It'll be interesting! (As always) But we have the best coach in the land and a solid team, so enjoy the ride... I know I will!

Thank you and Porthawk kindly, but it's all of the folks in this thread and in others that have kept this board going.

I've been a relative stranger and lurker more the past couple seasons - often with things I'd love to come on and say (including thoughts and pics from a trip I took with my son to the FF and NC last year), but life has been crazy and I'm a bit wary of getting pulled into conversations I love but are hard to squeeze in, time-wise.

HawkErrant makes this platform work, tending to it daily, and deserves the highest praise for that. Corpus and Asteroid provide analytics and data that you can't find anywhere else. And so many others on here - I'd mention you all by name, but I don't want to inadvertently offend by leaving someone off - add unique, particular perspective all the time. I personally cherish it all, and thank each person on the board for keeping this thing going due to your love of the game and all things Jayhawk.

And on a personal note, since none of us are getting any younger, I just want to say that it's good to still see so many familiar faces on here (kinda like a digital "Cheers" local bar, lol), and I hope all of you and yours are healthy and doing well.

I'll pop in now and then, when I can. Go Hawks...