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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Helms Foundation
- USAF Jayhawk
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2 years 1 month ago #29644
by USAF Jayhawk
I was cruising the 'net when I found the Wikipedia article on the Helms Foundation. I'm sure most of you recall that KU was awarded Championship titles in 1922 and 1923, and KU (and most fan groups) tends to include those when listing the total number of championships won. The link is an interesting read...Seems that "Helms" was a bakery and no foundation actually existed. The selections were made by a single person. Maybe I should retroactively pick national champions!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms_Athletic_Foundation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms_Athletic_Foundation
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- b82, g84 Lift the chorus...
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2 years 1 month ago - 2 years 1 month ago #29645
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Two guys, one ran the bakery operations (Helms) and the other (Bill Schroeder) the Helms Foundation, which was legally a real foundation IIRC, albeit a one man shop.
CORRECTION -- although a legal organization, it was not a true foundation. It had no money of its own, its operations were funded by the Helms Bakery. When the bakery went out of business in 1969, LA based Citizen's Bank became the foundation's financial supporter. Eventually the Helms Foundation collections became a part of the LA84 Foundation. Created with a share of the 1984 Olympic Games surplus, LA84 began operations in 1985 as a grant making and educational foundation. The foundation supports hundreds of non-profit youth sports organizations throughout Southern California annually, trains coaches, commissions research, convenes conferences and maintains the world’s premier Olympic and sports library collection.
Helms Foundation
LA84.org
I look at it this way…
The NCAA tournament started in 1939.
The AP polls began:
Div I/FBS football
1936
Div I/FCS football
1978
Div I men's basketball
1948–49 (Coaches Poll began 1950-51)
Div I women's basketball
1976-77
As far as college basketball is concerned, for everything from 1939 on (the first year of the NCAA tournament) the winner of the NCAA tournament is by definition the NCAA Division 1 national champion.
Nobody else — no organization, no individual — did anything with the years before 1939 until Helms came along and retroactively awarded national championship titles for those earlier years.
The official NCAA Men’s Basketball records book that is published every year has always included the Helms Foundation champions for college basketball in the Polls section of the records book, as well as the Helms AA selections for those early years in the All Americans selections section.
For more on the Helms Foundation and why I’m okay with claiming the pre-1939 Helms titles (as long as they are identified as such for mass consumption), see my earlier commentary found at the link below:
RCB: KU #1 Bubbly thread
I actually go into details in more than one post in that thread, which also has some interesting points brought up by other board members.
CORRECTION -- although a legal organization, it was not a true foundation. It had no money of its own, its operations were funded by the Helms Bakery. When the bakery went out of business in 1969, LA based Citizen's Bank became the foundation's financial supporter. Eventually the Helms Foundation collections became a part of the LA84 Foundation. Created with a share of the 1984 Olympic Games surplus, LA84 began operations in 1985 as a grant making and educational foundation. The foundation supports hundreds of non-profit youth sports organizations throughout Southern California annually, trains coaches, commissions research, convenes conferences and maintains the world’s premier Olympic and sports library collection.
Helms Foundation
LA84.org
I look at it this way…
The NCAA tournament started in 1939.
The AP polls began:
Div I/FBS football
1936
Div I/FCS football
1978
Div I men's basketball
1948–49 (Coaches Poll began 1950-51)
Div I women's basketball
1976-77
As far as college basketball is concerned, for everything from 1939 on (the first year of the NCAA tournament) the winner of the NCAA tournament is by definition the NCAA Division 1 national champion.
Nobody else — no organization, no individual — did anything with the years before 1939 until Helms came along and retroactively awarded national championship titles for those earlier years.
The official NCAA Men’s Basketball records book that is published every year has always included the Helms Foundation champions for college basketball in the Polls section of the records book, as well as the Helms AA selections for those early years in the All Americans selections section.
For more on the Helms Foundation and why I’m okay with claiming the pre-1939 Helms titles (as long as they are identified as such for mass consumption), see my earlier commentary found at the link below:
RCB: KU #1 Bubbly thread
I actually go into details in more than one post in that thread, which also has some interesting points brought up by other board members.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 2 years 1 month ago by HawkErrant. Reason: added more info on the Helms Foundation
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