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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Bill Self W-L Record AY2022-23
1 year 8 months ago - 7 months 2 weeks ago #30512
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
NB: The AY2021-22 thread can be found at
this link.
TT = another Win Rock Chalked Up!
But a question has arisen.
When the 4 game suspensions for Self and Assistant Coach Kurtis Townsend were announced back in November, KU Athletics indicated those games would not count as part of Self's record. They would instead be "program wins" (no credit for Norm Roberts, either).
But now KU Communications, in it's Game Notes (both pre-game and post game) is including those 4 wins when Roberts was the interim HC in Self's record, at least in part. They have the 4 wins in Self's KU record for this year and in his KU career record, but not in his overall career record, which is inconsistent to say the least. I have queried them to find out if KU Athletics has changed it's stance on whether those wins will count for Self or not.
I personally think they should. It's his program, his players that he and his staff have recruited and developed. If he was out sick for 4 games, they would almost certainly include them. The move to make them "program" wins was solely to attempt to placate the NCAA.
But given what we were told at the start of the season, I have kept those wins separate from Self's record, which has been something of a pain for managing my data files.
But more importantly, when Self passes Phog, everyone should be able to agree on what the records are.
For now, until I learn that KU Athletics has rescinded it's earlier official decision, I am not including the Roberts wins in Self's totals.
WON-LOST
at KU____ ( % ) NAME_________ CAREER ( % )
590-219 (.729) Phog Allen___ 746-264 (.739)
577-129 (.817) BILL SELF_____ 784-234 (.770)
418-101 (.805) Roy Williams_ 903-264 (.774)
10 = Potential games left in AY2022-23 if KU makes the finals in both the Big 12 and NCAA Tournaments.
13 = Wins to tie Phog as winningest Head Coach in KANSAS history.
119 = Wins to tie Roy as THE winningest KANSAS Head Coach for TOTAL CAREER
To pass Phog this year Self's Jayhawks would have had to finish 39-1, repeating as National Champions.
Self should pass both Phog and 800 wins early next season.
Here's to his Jayhawks only needing to give him 3 wins next season to tie PHOG!
===============================================
BACKGROUND
(This section seldom changes during the course of the season, but is copied in each new post for easy reference.)
Last Update: 2023-02-18
With AY2021-22's 34-6 record and NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, Bill was mathematically positioned to be able to pass Phog by the end of the AY2022-23 postseason. It would have required winning 35 games in AY2022-23. With his four game suspension to start the year and the loss against Tennessee in the Battle for Atlantis, KANSAS would have had to run the table the rest of the way to pass Phog.
FYI: in his 19 years at KANSAS Bill's teams have won 69 games or more in two consecutive seasons just once, so the odds were against him racking up 35 Ws for AY2022-23 even before he had to sit for the first 4 games of the season as part of KU's self-imposed sanctions to try to finally get the outstanding NCAA case against KANSAS and Self and Assistant Coach Kurtis Townsend settled..
60+ WIN CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
70 wins AY2006-07 and AY2007-08
68 wins AY2009-10 and AY2010-11
67 wins AY2010-11 and AY2011-12
64 wins (a) AY2007-08 and AY 2008-09 (b) AY2015-16 and AY2016-17
63 wins AY2011-12 and AY2012-13
62 wins AY2016-17 and AY2017-18
Despite the NCAA case still not being settled as I write this, the lifetime contract -- and frankly, the lack of any significant punishment being meted out by the NCAA to programs like Arizona -- seems to be having a positive impact on recruiting if having the Rivals #3 recruiting class for 2022 and one of the top recruiting classes for 2023 so far (Rivals #18, 247Sports #11, ESPN #13) is any indication.
Phog was forcibly retired after the AY1955-56 season due to a Kansas state law requiring state employees to retire at 70. He petitioned for an exemption so he would be able to coach sophomore Wilt Chamberlain in his NCAA varsity debut season, but was denied. His assistant Dick Harp took over as head coach. When Phog retired his record was
KANSAS 39 years
• 1 NCAA Tournament Championship (1952), 2 Helms National Championships (1922, 1923)
• 3 Final Fours (1940, 1952, 1953) and 3 NC games in 18 years of NCAA Tournament existence
• 24 Conference Regular Season Championships
• Career W-L: Kansas 590-219 (.729), total 746-264 (0.739)
Even when the day comes that Bill passes Phog's totals to become the winningest coach in KANSAS history, he will still be the 2nd winningest men's basketball coach for his whole career to ever coach at KANSAS.
Roy only stayed at KU long enough to record a 418-101 KANSAS record, but he went on to pass Phog in Career wins with his alma mater. Roy, who turned 71 in August 2021, retired April 1, 2021. His record after 33 years -
KANSAS 15 years
• 4 Final Fours (1991, 1993, 2002, 2003); 2 NC games (1991, 2003)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships (Big 8: 5; Big 12: 4)
• Kansas W-L: 418-101 (.808)
NORTH CAROLINA 18 years
• 3 NCAA Championships (2005, 2009, 2017)
• 5 Final Fours (2005, 2008, 2009, 2016, 2017); 4 NC games (2005, 2009, 2016, 2017)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships
• UNC W-L: 483-163 (748)
• CAREER: W-L: 903-264 (.774), 18 Conference Regular Season Championships
Bill (who turned 60 in December 2022) still has a long way to go after 29 seasons (conservatively another 6 seasons if he averages 25 wins per season) to catch and pass Roy in total career wins and be the winningest head coach ever to coach at KANSAS.
How much longer will Bill Self coach?
I'd love to see him coach for another 10 seasons (starting with this season) for 39 total seasons coaching, retiring at 70 in 2033 and winning over 1000 games in his career.
But what does Bill think, you say?
See
KC Star: KU coach Bill Self addresses NBA rumors: ‘I look forward to being here for a long time’ by Sam Mellinger.
and
KUSports.com - Tait: Kansas basketball coach Bill Self signs lifetime contract extension with KU (2021-04-02)
*NB:
AY2021-22 final record was 34-6
TT = another Win Rock Chalked Up!
But a question has arisen.
When the 4 game suspensions for Self and Assistant Coach Kurtis Townsend were announced back in November, KU Athletics indicated those games would not count as part of Self's record. They would instead be "program wins" (no credit for Norm Roberts, either).
But now KU Communications, in it's Game Notes (both pre-game and post game) is including those 4 wins when Roberts was the interim HC in Self's record, at least in part. They have the 4 wins in Self's KU record for this year and in his KU career record, but not in his overall career record, which is inconsistent to say the least. I have queried them to find out if KU Athletics has changed it's stance on whether those wins will count for Self or not.
I personally think they should. It's his program, his players that he and his staff have recruited and developed. If he was out sick for 4 games, they would almost certainly include them. The move to make them "program" wins was solely to attempt to placate the NCAA.
But given what we were told at the start of the season, I have kept those wins separate from Self's record, which has been something of a pain for managing my data files.
But more importantly, when Self passes Phog, everyone should be able to agree on what the records are.
For now, until I learn that KU Athletics has rescinded it's earlier official decision, I am not including the Roberts wins in Self's totals.
WON-LOST
at KU____ ( % ) NAME_________ CAREER ( % )
590-219 (.729) Phog Allen___ 746-264 (.739)
577-129 (.817) BILL SELF_____ 784-234 (.770)
418-101 (.805) Roy Williams_ 903-264 (.774)
10 = Potential games left in AY2022-23 if KU makes the finals in both the Big 12 and NCAA Tournaments.
13 = Wins to tie Phog as winningest Head Coach in KANSAS history.
119 = Wins to tie Roy as THE winningest KANSAS Head Coach for TOTAL CAREER
To pass Phog this year Self's Jayhawks would have had to finish 39-1, repeating as National Champions.
Self should pass both Phog and 800 wins early next season.
Here's to his Jayhawks only needing to give him 3 wins next season to tie PHOG!
===============================================
BACKGROUND
(This section seldom changes during the course of the season, but is copied in each new post for easy reference.)
Last Update: 2023-02-18
With AY2021-22's 34-6 record and NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, Bill was mathematically positioned to be able to pass Phog by the end of the AY2022-23 postseason. It would have required winning 35 games in AY2022-23. With his four game suspension to start the year and the loss against Tennessee in the Battle for Atlantis, KANSAS would have had to run the table the rest of the way to pass Phog.
FYI: in his 19 years at KANSAS Bill's teams have won 69 games or more in two consecutive seasons just once, so the odds were against him racking up 35 Ws for AY2022-23 even before he had to sit for the first 4 games of the season as part of KU's self-imposed sanctions to try to finally get the outstanding NCAA case against KANSAS and Self and Assistant Coach Kurtis Townsend settled..
60+ WIN CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
70 wins AY2006-07 and AY2007-08
68 wins AY2009-10 and AY2010-11
67 wins AY2010-11 and AY2011-12
64 wins (a) AY2007-08 and AY 2008-09 (b) AY2015-16 and AY2016-17
63 wins AY2011-12 and AY2012-13
62 wins AY2016-17 and AY2017-18
Despite the NCAA case still not being settled as I write this, the lifetime contract -- and frankly, the lack of any significant punishment being meted out by the NCAA to programs like Arizona -- seems to be having a positive impact on recruiting if having the Rivals #3 recruiting class for 2022 and one of the top recruiting classes for 2023 so far (Rivals #18, 247Sports #11, ESPN #13) is any indication.
Phog was forcibly retired after the AY1955-56 season due to a Kansas state law requiring state employees to retire at 70. He petitioned for an exemption so he would be able to coach sophomore Wilt Chamberlain in his NCAA varsity debut season, but was denied. His assistant Dick Harp took over as head coach. When Phog retired his record was
KANSAS 39 years
• 1 NCAA Tournament Championship (1952), 2 Helms National Championships (1922, 1923)
• 3 Final Fours (1940, 1952, 1953) and 3 NC games in 18 years of NCAA Tournament existence
• 24 Conference Regular Season Championships
• Career W-L: Kansas 590-219 (.729), total 746-264 (0.739)
Even when the day comes that Bill passes Phog's totals to become the winningest coach in KANSAS history, he will still be the 2nd winningest men's basketball coach for his whole career to ever coach at KANSAS.
Roy only stayed at KU long enough to record a 418-101 KANSAS record, but he went on to pass Phog in Career wins with his alma mater. Roy, who turned 71 in August 2021, retired April 1, 2021. His record after 33 years -
KANSAS 15 years
• 4 Final Fours (1991, 1993, 2002, 2003); 2 NC games (1991, 2003)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships (Big 8: 5; Big 12: 4)
• Kansas W-L: 418-101 (.808)
NORTH CAROLINA 18 years
• 3 NCAA Championships (2005, 2009, 2017)
• 5 Final Fours (2005, 2008, 2009, 2016, 2017); 4 NC games (2005, 2009, 2016, 2017)
• 9 Conference Regular Season Championships
• UNC W-L: 483-163 (748)
• CAREER: W-L: 903-264 (.774), 18 Conference Regular Season Championships
Bill (who turned 60 in December 2022) still has a long way to go after 29 seasons (conservatively another 6 seasons if he averages 25 wins per season) to catch and pass Roy in total career wins and be the winningest head coach ever to coach at KANSAS.
How much longer will Bill Self coach?
I'd love to see him coach for another 10 seasons (starting with this season) for 39 total seasons coaching, retiring at 70 in 2033 and winning over 1000 games in his career.
But what does Bill think, you say?
See
KC Star: KU coach Bill Self addresses NBA rumors: ‘I look forward to being here for a long time’ by Sam Mellinger.
and
KUSports.com - Tait: Kansas basketball coach Bill Self signs lifetime contract extension with KU (2021-04-02)
*NB:
AY2021-22 final record was 34-6
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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