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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Bill Self gets it
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2 years 7 months ago - 2 years 7 months ago #28960
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
LJWorld.com: KU coach Bill Self focused on winning for the Kansas program more than his legacy
We've talked about it here for decades, since the Rock Chalk Board went online back in the 1990s.
In discussions among college basketball aficionados, it is pointed out by many, both inside and outside the fandom, as a failing of the program,
The Kansas basketball program has an unparalleled history and impact on the game, so much so that the great Grantland Rice himself dubbed it "the cradle of college basketball". Yet Kansas is burdened with the albatross of historically being unable to seal the deal once making the Final Four.
Bill Self gets it.
His focus is on the legacy of the program, and how despite everything else, it has lagged behind the other bluebloods -- and even some not so bluebloods -- in winning NCAAT titles. He naturally wants to improve on that legacy.
Of course you could properly say that his legacy is inseparably tied with that of the program’s and you would be correct.
But his focus is, I think, the right one.
In 3 trips so far he has made the title game twice and won once. Matches Phog himself in wins.
And KANSAS as a blueblood program? Having made 16 trips to the Final Four is a fantastic history.
Only having three titles to show for the previous 15 opportunities is not.
Only 4 programs -- UNC, UCLA, UK and Duke -- have been to more Final Fours than KANSAS.
They all have 5 or more NCAAT titles to their credit.
Indiana has just 8 FF appearances to its credit, and 5 NCAA titles -- 2 of them won defeating Phog Allen's Jayhawks (1940, 1953).
Excelling at sealing the deal once you get to the FF, UConn has only been to 5 Final Fours, but has 4 NCAA titles to its credit. That .800 is the best winning % among any programs with 5 or more Final Fours in their history.
KANSAS, tied with Michigan State at a measly .200 winning percentage, shares the basement in that category with the Spartans.
Let's get out of the basement, JAYHAWKS!
Do it for yourselves, and do it for the name on the uniform.
Go make some more heralded history for KANSAS!
ROCK CHALK!
MEN'S TEAMS WITH MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS (including Final Four appearances)Sources:
Wikipedia: List of NCAA Division I men's basketball champions
Wikipedia: NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament Final Four appearances by school
We've talked about it here for decades, since the Rock Chalk Board went online back in the 1990s.
In discussions among college basketball aficionados, it is pointed out by many, both inside and outside the fandom, as a failing of the program,
The Kansas basketball program has an unparalleled history and impact on the game, so much so that the great Grantland Rice himself dubbed it "the cradle of college basketball". Yet Kansas is burdened with the albatross of historically being unable to seal the deal once making the Final Four.
Bill Self gets it.
His focus is on the legacy of the program, and how despite everything else, it has lagged behind the other bluebloods -- and even some not so bluebloods -- in winning NCAAT titles. He naturally wants to improve on that legacy.
Of course you could properly say that his legacy is inseparably tied with that of the program’s and you would be correct.
But his focus is, I think, the right one.
In 3 trips so far he has made the title game twice and won once. Matches Phog himself in wins.
And KANSAS as a blueblood program? Having made 16 trips to the Final Four is a fantastic history.
Only having three titles to show for the previous 15 opportunities is not.
Only 4 programs -- UNC, UCLA, UK and Duke -- have been to more Final Fours than KANSAS.
They all have 5 or more NCAAT titles to their credit.
Indiana has just 8 FF appearances to its credit, and 5 NCAA titles -- 2 of them won defeating Phog Allen's Jayhawks (1940, 1953).
Excelling at sealing the deal once you get to the FF, UConn has only been to 5 Final Fours, but has 4 NCAA titles to its credit. That .800 is the best winning % among any programs with 5 or more Final Fours in their history.
KANSAS, tied with Michigan State at a measly .200 winning percentage, shares the basement in that category with the Spartans.
Let's get out of the basement, JAYHAWKS!
Do it for yourselves, and do it for the name on the uniform.
Go make some more heralded history for KANSAS!
ROCK CHALK!
MEN'S TEAMS WITH MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS (including Final Four appearances)
Team FF Titles T/FF% Years won
UCLA 19* 11 0.579 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970,
1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1995
Kentucky 17 8 0.471 1948, 1949, 1951, 1958, 1978,
1996, 1998, 2012
N Carolina + 20 6 0.300 1957, 1982, 1993, 2005, 2009, 2017
Duke + 16 5 0.313 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010, 2015
Indiana 8 5 0.625 1940, 1953, 1976, 1981, 1987
Connecticut 5 4 0.800 1999, 2004, 2011, 2014
Kansas + 15 3 0.200 1952, 1988, 2008
Villanova + 6* 3 0.500 1985, 2016, 2018
Louisville 8** 2 0.375 1980, 1986, 2013 (2013 vacated)
Cincinnati 6 2 0.333 1961, 1962
Florida 5 2 0.400 2006, 2007
Michigan St 10 2 0.200 1979, 2000
NC State 3 2 0.667 1974, 1983
Oklahoma St 6 2 0.333 1945, 1946 (as Oklahoma A&M)
San Francisco 3 2 0.667 1955, 1956
NOTES
1. + made Final Four in 2022, so add one to FF shown for current FF appearances
2. Titles shown are the official NCAA totals (i.e., without Vacated titles);
% includes vacated titles
3. * One vacated appearance included in the Final Four total
4. ** Two vacated appearances included in the Final Four total
Wikipedia: List of NCAA Division I men's basketball champions
Wikipedia: NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament Final Four appearances by school
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by HawkErrant. Reason: Formatting
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2 years 7 months ago - 2 years 7 months ago #28963
by hoshi
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
I worry a little that Self is putting too much pressure on this team with his comments. On the other hand, may be that is what this team needs. We will find out this weekend. To your point, talking of Blue Bloods, NO ONE can hold a candle to us based on the history of BB and our winning record. Yes, maybe we have fallen a little short on National Championships, BUT, I have been proud of our teams and 95% of our players since 1968. I would not trade places with anyone.
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by HawkErrant.
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2 years 7 months ago #28964
by HawkErrant
I agree with all your points, hoshi. As I noted in the original post, KANSAS has had an "unparalleled history and impact on the game". I also would not trade places with anyone. Not having more titles is just about the only point on which the program and its keepers over the years have arguably fallen short. But they excelled at every thing else, including getting there in the first place, and we never forget that.
Just makes us want a little more so we can put a sock in the mouths of folks who point to titles as the only signs of greatness.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
hoshi wrote: I worry a little that Self is putting too much pressure on this team with his comments. On the other hand, may be that is what this team needs. We will find out this weekend. To your point, talking of Blue Bloods, NO ONE can hold a candle to us based on the history of BB and our winning record. Yes, maybe we have fallen a little short on National Championships, BUT, I have been proud of our teams and 95% of our players since 1968. I would not trade places with anyone.
I agree with all your points, hoshi. As I noted in the original post, KANSAS has had an "unparalleled history and impact on the game". I also would not trade places with anyone. Not having more titles is just about the only point on which the program and its keepers over the years have arguably fallen short. But they excelled at every thing else, including getting there in the first place, and we never forget that.
Just makes us want a little more so we can put a sock in the mouths of folks who point to titles as the only signs of greatness.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
The following user(s) said Thank You: hoshi, newtonhawk, jaythawk1
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.