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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Home whistle
- big g
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2 years 9 months ago #28415
by big g
Anyone aware of any stats addressing Fran’s point tonight that we get a materially more friendly home whistle than other teams get? I know I’m biased but that assertion doesn’t pass my eye test. I’m sure we have fewer fouls called at home than on the road but not more than the average team. Anyone seen this stat? Thx!
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- hairyhawk
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2 years 9 months ago #28417
by hairyhawk
I do not have that stat but my eye test would agree with you. I wonder if you could do fouls for and against in all games where you played the other team both home and away comparing the average for each team. I thought several years back WVU got the whistles at home so much more than away from home that it made a significant difference in the scores leading to a high home court advantage.
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- CorpusJayhawk
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2 years 9 months ago #28418
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
Determining if there is a home bias would require a more extensive data set and analysis than I possess. But if you want to assume there is a home bias this limited data set could serve to confirm that assumption. Obviously and as I said, there are other factors to consider such as style of play at home and on the road but if you are inclined to look for home bias, here is your fodder. Personally, I believe there is a home bias. I don't have the data for other teams but I would bet that many (or most) teams have data similar to this. The extent of the home bias is not great but it does seem to exist.
The data below shows the following (data set all games from 1993-94 season through yesterday)
1. KU get's an average of 16.8 fouls per game at home compared to 20.2 for opponents (3.3 fewer than opponents)
2. KU gets an average of 16.8 fouls per game at home vs. 19.4 on the road (2.6 more on the road than at home)
3. KU gets an average of 19.4 fouls per game on the road compared to 18.6 for opponents (0.8 more than opponents)
If you use the neutral court games as a control (not an unreasonable assumption) then you would conclude that KU fouls about once per game less than the opponent. Since we get 3.3 fewer fouls at home that means there is potentially a 2.3 foul bias at home. Likewise there would be a 1.8 foul bias for the opponent on the road. That all passes the reasonability test. If this all was proved valid and accurate, the one would conclude that KU get's about 2.3 fewer fouls at home and the opponent gets about 1.8 fewer fouls at their home meaning there is across the board bias but KU gets slightly more bias at home. Before you discount all this for all the reasons it might not be valid, consider, this is a data set of 1015 games so not exactly inconsequential.
The data below shows the following (data set all games from 1993-94 season through yesterday)
1. KU get's an average of 16.8 fouls per game at home compared to 20.2 for opponents (3.3 fewer than opponents)
2. KU gets an average of 16.8 fouls per game at home vs. 19.4 on the road (2.6 more on the road than at home)
3. KU gets an average of 19.4 fouls per game on the road compared to 18.6 for opponents (0.8 more than opponents)
If you use the neutral court games as a control (not an unreasonable assumption) then you would conclude that KU fouls about once per game less than the opponent. Since we get 3.3 fewer fouls at home that means there is potentially a 2.3 foul bias at home. Likewise there would be a 1.8 foul bias for the opponent on the road. That all passes the reasonability test. If this all was proved valid and accurate, the one would conclude that KU get's about 2.3 fewer fouls at home and the opponent gets about 1.8 fewer fouls at their home meaning there is across the board bias but KU gets slightly more bias at home. Before you discount all this for all the reasons it might not be valid, consider, this is a data set of 1015 games so not exactly inconsequential.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, hairyhawk, wchawk, big g, Socalhawk, KMT, jaythawk1
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- big g
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2 years 9 months ago #28419
by big g
Thx corpus, what took you so long? Lol. so it seems like maybe half a foul per game or about 1 point whistle advantage playing in AFH vs the normal home whistle advantage everyone gets? So a bunch of one point wins might have gone to OT, some of which we might have lost. I guess fouls may only be part of what Scott drew or Fran sees, ie, out of bounds calls, traveling not called (Svi), etc. Mostly tho I suspect that there is a massive home court advantage caused by the noise, support and emotional surge that gives us 5 or more points a game, very little of which is related to better whistles. That’s my eye test anyway'
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- AZhawk87
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2 years 9 months ago #28423
by AZhawk87
I did think last night that there were several instances where KU got away with some fouls. I thought the OSU HC would surely get a T, given how the score was getting away from OSU and the refs swallowed their whistles a few times against us. Even just to fire his team up. Not crying for OSU though.
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- CorpusJayhawk
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2 years 9 months ago #28426
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
Big g you bring up a very important issue. There may be and likely is referee bias for the home team but in Allen Fieldhouse that is dwarfed by the home advantage of the fans, the arena, the aura, the mystique and the ghost of Phog. I sure wish someone would do an extensive series of interviews of coaches and players who have coached in The Phog. Some clearly thrive on the experience. Some wither. I suspect that on average, there is a bit more withering than thriving. But I would love to see some candid assessments of the experience combined with a clear expose of the actual numbers that back up these assertions. KU has the winningest home field advantage in the nation over the years.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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- HawkErrant
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2 years 9 months ago #28427
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Thanks, Corpus!
But people like Fran focus their soapbox on KANSAS as if it is the only place it happens.
Is that accurate, or is it a "Blue Blood" issue, including old and new BBs?
So, what does the same data look like for --
ALL TIME WINNINGEST PROGRAMS
Kentucky
North Carolina
Duke
Syracuse (ignoring the NCAA vacated games that put Temple above SU on the list)
Especially Duke.
I wouldn't mind seeing Gonzaga, Villanova and Arizona as well.
Heck, what about West "By God!" Virginia???
KU under Self is just 3-6 there, and my eye test tells me the foul differential plays a major part in favor of WVU in those games.
If you can and have the time, thanks.
If you can't or don't have the time, no worries!
But people like Fran focus their soapbox on KANSAS as if it is the only place it happens.
Is that accurate, or is it a "Blue Blood" issue, including old and new BBs?
So, what does the same data look like for --
ALL TIME WINNINGEST PROGRAMS
Kentucky
North Carolina
Duke
Syracuse (ignoring the NCAA vacated games that put Temple above SU on the list)
Especially Duke.
I wouldn't mind seeing Gonzaga, Villanova and Arizona as well.
Heck, what about West "By God!" Virginia???
KU under Self is just 3-6 there, and my eye test tells me the foul differential plays a major part in favor of WVU in those games.
If you can and have the time, thanks.
If you can't or don't have the time, no worries!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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