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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
predictions for Iowa State game
- asteroid
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2 years 10 months ago #28099
by asteroid
So, RealTime was the only prognosticator to get the outcome of the Texas Tech game
right. Still doesn't change my mind about RealTime not being ready for Prime Time.
As you should recall, the projected conference record for Kansas was 14-4, even
though there was only one projected loss, namely at Waco. That meant there were
three projected wins that would ultimately turn into losses. The most likely
candidates for those other three losses are at Austin, the home game with Baylor,
and, bingo, at Lubbock. That still doesn't make it a projected loss, but rather
one of the more likely "statistical losses". So it's not terribly surprising
that Kansas lost the game, which probably explains why the rankings for Kansas
by the various computers haven't changed much, certainly not as much as in the
human polls, which are more strongly affected by the most recent loss. Having
said that, it couldn't have been set up any better for Kansas having Tech without
their two leading scorers. If we had separate ratings for the teams of players
that actually played the game, I suspect the margin for Kansas would have been
a few points greater, and then the game at Norman would have replaced it as the
third most likely "statistical loss".
But enough about the past. What about the future? All the prognosticators
have Kansas beating Iowa State. The optimist is Dunkel, who has the Jayhawks
by 18.5 points. The pessimist is the common opponents comparison. Yes,
Iowa State beat the Red Raiders by 4, the team Kansas lost to by 8, a 12 point
differential. But the Cyclones were at home, Kansas was on the road, and today
the Cyclones are on the road, only their second true road game of the season.
Sagarin's home court advantage is just 2.9 points, which if taken at face value
would reduce that 12 point difference to just 3.4 points, still favoring the
Cyclones. However, also recall that the home court advantage has historically
been larger in the Big 12 than nationwide, though last season was a statistical
anomaly driven by mostly empty arenas. I've normally used 4 points for the
home court advantage when looking at common opponents (one degree of separation),
and that would be enough to zero out the margin between Kansas and Iowa State.
With the advantage as large as 5.5 points, which we have seen in prior years,
suddenly Kansas becomes favored by 4.5 points, but for purposes of the average
margin calculation, I'll stick with the more pessimistic value of zero.
The most reliable prognosticators have it as a double-digit victory for Kansas,
though Sagarin's Recent Games and eigenvector analysis have it much closer.
The Recent Games margin makes sense; I haven't figured out what Sagarin is
doing with his eigenvectors. Predictor is doing the best so far this season,
averaging a 6.7 point error, while Overall and Golden Mean are averaging 6.8
points in error, Recent Games is up at 8.0 points, and the newest addition
to his algorithms, the eigenvector analysis, is pulling up the rear at 10.6
points, the worst of the 19 predictions I've been tabulating this conference
season. Right now, the gold standard is Vegas, who is averaging 6.0 points
in error, as is Greenfield, who almost always mimics Vegas. Curiously, Dunkel
is also currently averaging a 6.0 point error; I doubt that will last. Among
my tweaks to Sagarin Predictor, the one taking into account performance is
averaging just 6.5 points of error. The tweak with the home court advantage
better suited for the Big 12 hasn't helped much so far, averaging 6.8 points
of error. My trend analysis is averaging 8.0 points of error. Expect all
of these average errors to get worse, particularly after one of those two-sigma
error games occurs.
Iowa State has played three games above expectation by enough to overcome a
12.8 point margin, all non-conference ganes when they were building their
glossly undefeated record and calling attention to their status as an upper
division conference team rather than the bottom feeder the media had them
painted as pre-season. Out of 15 games, that's a 20 percent chance of winning
today. Meanwhile, Kansas hasn't played ANY games below expectation by more
than 12.77 points, though the Dayton game comes close at 12.75 points. But
just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it won't happen. Still,
if you take the 20 and 0 and average them, Iowa State would have just a 10
percent chance of winning today, fairly consistent with the 11.1 percent
chance that the Sagarin Predictor ratings would suggest given each team's
inconsistency value, which is higher for the Cyclones than for the Jayhawks.
Iowa State does have positive trend and mental toughness ratings, while both
are negative for Kansas, though the only one that is statistically significant
is the Cyclones' mental toughness. Taken at face value, those reduce the
margin for Kansas to just 6.2 points.
The two teams average 139.9 points per game, with Iowa State playing the
decidedly lower-scoring games, by about 20 points. Interestingly, Sagarin
is calling for just 138.6 total points, a bit under the average; his previous
totals have been a bit over the average.
The average of the various prognostications is 9.4 points, with a scatter of
4.0 points.
Rock Chalk!
Greenfield Stats Comparison
===========================
Offensive Stats ISU KU Defensive Stats ISU KU
Points/Game 71.1 83.1 Opp Points/Game 58.4 67.2
Avg Score Margin +12.7 +15.9 Opp Effective FG % 44.4 48.9
Assists/Game 14.8 16.6 Off Rebounds/Gm 8.5 10.4
Total Rebounds/Gm 34.9 35.8 Def Rebounds/Gm 23.1 23.8
Effective FG % 51.5 57.0 Blocks/Game 3.2 4.2
Off Rebound % 29.2 33.8 Steals/Game 9.5 7.5
FTA/FGA 0.322 0.318 Personal Fouls/Gm 18.2 15.9
Turnover % 17.9 14.8
My Stats Comparison KU ISU
=================== ============= ============
performance +1.21 +2.85
inconsistency 8.97 11.79
trend -0.48 ± 0.60 +0.14 ± 0.73
mental toughness -0.17 ± 0.35 +0.45 ± 0.20
average total pts 150.29 129.47
Common Opponents
================
There is one common opponent, namely Texas Tech:
KU -8 TTU on road ( -4 neutral court)
ISU +4 TTU at home ( 0 neutral court)
KU 0 ISU at home ( -4 neutral court)
Players to Watch
================
most minutes Izaiah Brockington (guard)
most points Izaiah Brockington (guard)
most rebounds Izaiah Brockington (guard)
most assists Tyrese Hunter (guard)
most steals Tyrese Hunter (guard)
most blocks George Conditt IV (forward)
most turnovers Tyrese Hunter (guard)
most fouls George Conditt IV (forward)
Reserve guard Jaden Walker has missed the last three games due to an illness.
It hasn't been stated when he'll return to action. He's second-last in terms
of minutes played per game, so his absence isn't a big deal for the Cyclones.
12-2 13-2
Margin Predicted Win Prb Kansas Iowa State
Predictor points Score percent Rating SOS Rating SOS
==================== ====== ========= ======= ============ ============
Sagarin Overall +11.98 75 63 84 # 3 # 25 # 44 #197
Sagarin Predictor +12.77 76 63 88.9 # 4 # 25 # 51 #197
Sagarin Golden Mean +10.83 75 64 # 3 # 25 # 37 #197
Sagarin Recent Games + 4.28 71 67 # 15 # 25 # 20 #197
Sagarin Eigenvector + 6.31 72 66 72
Massey + 8.00 73 65 79 # 10 # 16 # 27 # 88
Pomeroy +10.49 76 66 # 4 # 31 # 38 #212
Greenfield +12.00 77 65 # 6 # 14 # 52 # 47
Dunkel +18.50 82 64 # 15 # 31
Vegas (via Dunkel) +11.00 76.5 65.5
Dolphin Predictive + 9.73 75 65 80.4 # 11 # 14 # 26 # 30
Real Time +10.00 84 74 74.1 # 2 # 18 # 15 #184
Seven Overtimes + 6.00 73 67 55 # 1 # 10 # 27 #156
DPPI + 9.30 76 67 76.6 # 7 # 18 # 30 # 94
ESPN BPI +12.20 86.4 # 10 # 41 # 41 # 64
Whitlock + 8.74 # 5 # 17 # 25 # 61
Colley Matrix + 6.68 # 7 # 16 # 22 #143
NCAA NET # 9 # 21
LRMC # 15* # #148* #
common opponents 0.00
==================== ====== ========= ======= ============ ============
average + 9.38 75.8 65.8 77.4
scatter 3.96 3.5 2.7 10.1
Here is Kansas' season, for which the current season projection is back down
to 25-6, with the TCU home game moved to the end of the schedule given its
currently unknown date:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
NEUT # 19 Michigan State 87 74 +4.54 +8.46
HOME #183 Tarleton State 88 62 +23.29 +2.71
HOME #211 Stony Brook-NY 88 59 +24.44 +4.56
NEUT # 86 North Texas 71 59 +12.55 -0.55
NEUT # 74 Dayton 73 74 +11.75 -12.75
NEUT # 99 Iona College 96 83 +13.38 -0.38
AWAY # 68 St. John's 95 75 +8.49 +11.51
HOME #165 UTEP 78 52 +22.43 +3.57
HOME #148 Missouri 102 65 +21.29 +15.71
HOME #132 Stephen F. Austin 80 72 +19.87 -11.87
HOME #112 Nevada 88 61 +18.00 +9.00
HOME #102 George Mason 76 67 +16.62 -7.62
AWAY # 45 Oklahoma State 74 63 +6.11 +4.89
AWAY # 23 Texas Tech 67 75 +2.34 -10.34
HOME # 51 Iowa State +12.78 0.889
HOME # 36 West Virginia +11.29 0.918
AWAY # 31 Oklahoma +3.74 0.638
AWAY # 78 Kansas State +9.22 0.860
HOME # 23 Texas Tech +8.06 0.795
HOME # 11 Kentucky +4.99 0.691
AWAY # 51 Iowa State +7.06 0.750
HOME # 2 Baylor +1.79 0.582
AWAY # 18 Texas +1.56 0.573
HOME # 31 Oklahoma +9.46 0.813
HOME # 45 Oklahoma State +11.83 0.866
AWAY # 36 West Virginia +5.57 0.754
HOME # 78 Kansas State +14.94 0.960
AWAY # 2 Baylor -3.93 0.324
AWAY # 62 TCU +8.14 0.819
HOME # 18 Texas +7.28 0.804
HOME # 62 TCU +13.86 0.940
Here is Iowa State's season:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
HOME #299 Kennesaw State 84 73 +20.94 -9.94
HOME #128 Oregon State 60 50 +9.44 +0.56
HOME #325 Alabama State 68 60 +23.19 -15.19
HOME #331 Grambling State 82 47 +23.70 +11.30
NEUT # 22 Xavier-Ohio 82 70 -4.93 +16.93
NEUT # 33 Memphis 78 59 -2.51 +21.51
HOME #356 Ark.-Pine Bluff 83 64 +29.54 -10.54
AWAY # 69 Creighton 64 58 -1.32 +7.32
HOME # 20 Iowa 73 53 -2.52 +22.52
HOME #273 Jackson State 47 37 +19.20 -9.20
HOME #301 SE Louisiana 77 54 +21.00 +2.00
HOME #351 Chicago State 79 48 +27.73 +3.27
HOME # 2 Baylor 72 77 -8.13 +3.13
HOME # 23 Texas Tech 51 47 -1.86 +5.86
AWAY # 31 Oklahoma 66 79 -6.18 -6.82
AWAY # 4 Kansas -12.78 0.111
HOME # 18 Texas -2.64 0.397
AWAY # 23 Texas Tech -7.58 0.249
HOME # 62 TCU +3.94 0.647
AWAY # 45 Oklahoma State -3.81 0.375
HOME #148 Missouri +11.37 0.836
HOME # 4 Kansas -7.06 0.250
AWAY # 18 Texas -8.36 0.204
AWAY # 36 West Virginia -4.35 0.328
HOME # 78 Kansas State +5.02 0.690
AWAY # 62 TCU -1.78 0.432
HOME # 31 Oklahoma -0.46 0.485
HOME # 36 West Virginia +1.37 0.556
AWAY # 78 Kansas State -0.70 0.472
HOME # 45 Oklahoma State +1.91 0.563
AWAY # 2 Baylor -13.85 0.087
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- hoshi
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2 years 10 months ago #28100
by hoshi
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
Bumped into a number of ISU fans today while out for my walk. The crowd tonight will be a mix.
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits”. Albert Einstein
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