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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Blue Bloods and the NCAA Tourney
- CorpusJayhawk
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3 years 8 months ago #26578
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
Nowhere is the term Blue Blood more applicable and on display than in the NCAA Tourney. The game has changed and there are the neo Blue Bloods like Villanova and maybe a few others. But when it comes to Blue Bloods rooted in deep history, the elite list is pared down pretty easily. By my definition, the Blue Blood is still a small fraternity of 6 schools. Indiana and UCLA have waned in recent years and has not kept up quite like the other 4, but both have claims to Blue Blood Status. Of course, UCLA won 10 NC's in a 12 year run and Indiana has won 5 NC's and has been a significant factor for 80 years or more.
But who are the next tier? Is it the teams that have knocked on the door for many decades like Michigan, Syracuse, Ohio St. Louisville and Michigan St.? Teams such as NC State and San Francisco won 2 NC's but have been mostly irrelevant since. What about UConn with 4 NC's? What about Villanova with 3 NC's. Or Arizona who was very significant under Lute Olson? Who has a case to level up to Blue Blood? Let's look at the NCAA to see who may have the best case.
1. Appearances: Kentucky leads with 60, followed by UNC at 51, UCLA at 50, Kansas at 48 and Duke at 44. But Louisville is tied with Duke at 44 and Syracuse (41), UConn (41), Notre Dame (40), and Villnova (40) are all ahead of Indiana with 39. BTW, West Virginia is in 13th with 36, ahead of Arizona.
2. Total Games: Kentucky again leads with 184 and UNC again in 2nd at 173. It falls off a bunch to Kansas in 3rd at 155, Duke at 152 and UCLA at 148. Louisville again is in 5th way back at 120. But Syracuse (108), Villanova (102), Michigan St. (101) are all ahead of Indiana at 100.
3: Wins: Kentucky once again leads with 131 followed by UNC (again ) at 126. Duke is 3rd at 114 and Kansas 4th at 108. UCLA is right there at 106. Here it falls off dramatically with Louisville at 76 with Michigan St. (69) ahead of Indiana who is tied with Syracuse at 66. Villanova is just back at 65.
4. Sweet 16's: Yes, Kentucky is 1st with 45 way ahead of the pack. UNC and UCLA are tied for 2nd with 34 and Duke and Kansas are tied for 4th at 31. There is Louisville again in 5th and pretty close at 28. With Syracuse (23) ahead of Indiana (22).
5. Elite 8's: Yes, Kentucky is 1st with 38 and UNC is 2nd with 28. Kansas is 3rd with 24 and UCLA and Duke tied for 4th with 22 each. Then it is a big drop to Ohio St. in 6th with 15 and Louisville, Michigan St., Michigan and Villanova tied at 14. But get this, Kansas St. is next with 13ahead of Indiana with 11.
6. Final Four: Elite 8's, and Sweet 16's are nice but they don't carry the clout of Final 4's. And who has been able to win those Elite 8 games and get to the FF? Well, North Carolina is Numero uno with 20 FF appearances. UCLA is 2nd with 18, Kentucky 3rd with 17, Duke is 4th with 16 and Kansas is 5th with 15. Then like has been the trend, it falls off quite a bit to Ohio St. at 11 followed by Louisville and Michigan St. with 10 each. Michigan and Indiana are next tied at 8 each.
7. Championship Game: No surprise, UCLA has played in more NC games than anyone else with 13. But those were all a long time ago. Kentucky has played in 12 with UNC and Duke playing in 11 each. Kansas still stays in the top 5 at 9. But Michigan with 7 edges out Indiana with 6. Ohio St. has 5 and Villanova, UConn and Georgetown with 4 each.
8. NC's: This is the one that gets the big press. This is really why UCLA and Indiana can be included in the Blue Blood conversation. Obviously UCLA has the most with 11 thanks to John Wooden who somehow never gets a mention from Dickie V when talking great coaches. Kentucky has an impressive 8 NC's followed in 3rd by UNC with 6. Duke has 5 and is tied with Indiana also with 5. This is the only category where KU is not in the top 5. After UConn's 4 in 6th place, Kansas has to share 7th with with Villanova, Louisville, and Michigan St.
So from a tournament standpoint, who can make a claim to Blue Blood? Heck, should Indiana really be considered a Blue Blood when their only real argument is the 5 NC's? I mean Louisville seems to edge them out in most other categories. If you look at all time wins, Indiana is 10th all time to Louisville's 26th and Louisville trails by about 100 games. But if you start in 1950 to today, Louisville has 1477 wins compared to Indiana's 1362. I think Louisville can make a case they are as much of a Blue Blood as Indiana. BTW, that 1477 wins is 6th in that period to
1. Kentucky @ 1735
2. UNC 1682
3. Duke 1675
4. Kansas 1620
5. UCLA 1592
6. Louisville 1477
But who are the next tier? Is it the teams that have knocked on the door for many decades like Michigan, Syracuse, Ohio St. Louisville and Michigan St.? Teams such as NC State and San Francisco won 2 NC's but have been mostly irrelevant since. What about UConn with 4 NC's? What about Villanova with 3 NC's. Or Arizona who was very significant under Lute Olson? Who has a case to level up to Blue Blood? Let's look at the NCAA to see who may have the best case.
1. Appearances: Kentucky leads with 60, followed by UNC at 51, UCLA at 50, Kansas at 48 and Duke at 44. But Louisville is tied with Duke at 44 and Syracuse (41), UConn (41), Notre Dame (40), and Villnova (40) are all ahead of Indiana with 39. BTW, West Virginia is in 13th with 36, ahead of Arizona.
2. Total Games: Kentucky again leads with 184 and UNC again in 2nd at 173. It falls off a bunch to Kansas in 3rd at 155, Duke at 152 and UCLA at 148. Louisville again is in 5th way back at 120. But Syracuse (108), Villanova (102), Michigan St. (101) are all ahead of Indiana at 100.
3: Wins: Kentucky once again leads with 131 followed by UNC (again ) at 126. Duke is 3rd at 114 and Kansas 4th at 108. UCLA is right there at 106. Here it falls off dramatically with Louisville at 76 with Michigan St. (69) ahead of Indiana who is tied with Syracuse at 66. Villanova is just back at 65.
4. Sweet 16's: Yes, Kentucky is 1st with 45 way ahead of the pack. UNC and UCLA are tied for 2nd with 34 and Duke and Kansas are tied for 4th at 31. There is Louisville again in 5th and pretty close at 28. With Syracuse (23) ahead of Indiana (22).
5. Elite 8's: Yes, Kentucky is 1st with 38 and UNC is 2nd with 28. Kansas is 3rd with 24 and UCLA and Duke tied for 4th with 22 each. Then it is a big drop to Ohio St. in 6th with 15 and Louisville, Michigan St., Michigan and Villanova tied at 14. But get this, Kansas St. is next with 13ahead of Indiana with 11.
6. Final Four: Elite 8's, and Sweet 16's are nice but they don't carry the clout of Final 4's. And who has been able to win those Elite 8 games and get to the FF? Well, North Carolina is Numero uno with 20 FF appearances. UCLA is 2nd with 18, Kentucky 3rd with 17, Duke is 4th with 16 and Kansas is 5th with 15. Then like has been the trend, it falls off quite a bit to Ohio St. at 11 followed by Louisville and Michigan St. with 10 each. Michigan and Indiana are next tied at 8 each.
7. Championship Game: No surprise, UCLA has played in more NC games than anyone else with 13. But those were all a long time ago. Kentucky has played in 12 with UNC and Duke playing in 11 each. Kansas still stays in the top 5 at 9. But Michigan with 7 edges out Indiana with 6. Ohio St. has 5 and Villanova, UConn and Georgetown with 4 each.
8. NC's: This is the one that gets the big press. This is really why UCLA and Indiana can be included in the Blue Blood conversation. Obviously UCLA has the most with 11 thanks to John Wooden who somehow never gets a mention from Dickie V when talking great coaches. Kentucky has an impressive 8 NC's followed in 3rd by UNC with 6. Duke has 5 and is tied with Indiana also with 5. This is the only category where KU is not in the top 5. After UConn's 4 in 6th place, Kansas has to share 7th with with Villanova, Louisville, and Michigan St.
So from a tournament standpoint, who can make a claim to Blue Blood? Heck, should Indiana really be considered a Blue Blood when their only real argument is the 5 NC's? I mean Louisville seems to edge them out in most other categories. If you look at all time wins, Indiana is 10th all time to Louisville's 26th and Louisville trails by about 100 games. But if you start in 1950 to today, Louisville has 1477 wins compared to Indiana's 1362. I think Louisville can make a case they are as much of a Blue Blood as Indiana. BTW, that 1477 wins is 6th in that period to
1. Kentucky @ 1735
2. UNC 1682
3. Duke 1675
4. Kansas 1620
5. UCLA 1592
6. Louisville 1477
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
The following user(s) said Thank You: HawkErrant, hairyhawk, wardhawk, Socalhawk, porthawk
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