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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
predictions for Michigan State game
- asteroid
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7 years 8 months ago #12681
by asteroid
Now that all the cupcakes have been eliminated, we're down to a 32-team
tournament in which anything can happen; witness the overall #1 seed
Villanova losing to Wisconsin, which ought to serve as a wake-up call
for the remaining top seeds. The lowest ranked teams to survive the
Round of 64 are Middle Tennessee and USC, whose Sagarin Predictor ratings
are within 14 points of top-ranked Gonzaga, a little more than one
standard deviation, where you'd have about a 10 percent chance of an
upset, which isn't all that unreasonable. Up next is a tournament-savvy
Tom Izzo.
Sagarin gives Kansas a 7.7 point margin, with a 79.2 percent probability of
winning the game. Michigan State has been playing games that average 139.8
total points, comparable to Kansas State, the third-lowest scoring team in
the Big 12. By comparison, Kansas has been playing games that average
155.3 total points, the second-highest in the Big 12. The average of the
two teams is therefore 147.6 points, suggesting a final score of Kansas 78,
Michigan State 70. Kansas has been playing 0.4 points above expectation,
while the Spartans have been playing 0.5 points below expectation, which
increases the margin for Kansas to 8.6 points. The inconsistency for Kansas
increased a bit after the rout of UC Davis, but 7.1 points is still amazingly
low. Only 5 times out of 33 games have the Jayhawks played by more than 8
points below expectation, which would be enough to lose today's game,
corresponding to a 15.2 percent chance of losing. Michigan State, on the
other hand, is slightly more inconsistent than the national average. In
8 out of 34 games, the Spartans played more than 8 points above expectation,
which would be enough to win today's game, corresponding to a 23.5 percent
chance of winning. Those two probabilities average to a 19.3 percent chance
of Kansas losing, nearly identical to the 20.8 percent chance of losing
derived from the Sagarin Predictor ratings and the respective inconsistency
ratings. Noteworthy is the fact that 3 of those 8 games occurred within
Michigan State's last 6 games, and the margin by which they beat Miami was
20 points more than expected, compared with Kansas' victory over UC Davis,
which was only 14 points more than expected. Yes, Michigan State has a
statistically significant positive trend, while Kansas also has a positive
trend, though it is not statistically significant. Both teams have negative
mental toughness rates. The value for Kansas became statistically significant
after the rout of UC Davis, while the value for Michigan State is effectively
non-existent. Taken at face value, however, the margin for Kansas decreases
to 6.9 points. The 7.7 point margin derived from the Sagarin Predictor
ratings is actually the most pessimistic of the various Sagarin methods,
getting at high as 11.6 points using the Elo Chess method. The "offense
defense" method puts the margin at 8.4 points, with a final score of
Kansas 79, Michigan State 70.
Massey gives Kansas a 7.0 point margin, with a 73 percent probability of
winning the game. His projected final score is Kansas 78, Michigan State 71.
Pomeroy has Kansas with the better adjusted offense by 9.5 units, as well as
the better adjusted defense by 0.6 units. Those combine to a 10.1 units
advantage for Kansas. With the average adjusted tempo being 68.5 possessions,
the margin would be 6.9 points. The final score would then be Kansas 76,
Michigan State 69. By the way, Michigan State is Pomeroy's third-lowest
ranked team remaining in the tournament, midway through the Round of 32.
Only Arkansas and USC are ranked lower.
Greenfield gives Kansas an 8.0 point margin, with a Vegas implied final score
of Kansas 78, Michigan State 70. Among the key offensive stats, Kansas has
the advantage in seven out of eight categories; Michigan State dishes 0.6
more assists per game. Among the key defensive stats, Kansas has the
advantage in just three of the seven categories, namely grabbing 2.2 more
offensive rebounds per game, stealing 2.5 more balls per game, and committing
2.1 fewer personal fouls per game.
Dunkel gives Kansas a 10.0 point margin, and he claims that a Vegas line is at
8.0 points, so he is picking Kansas in both the game and against the spread.
His total points is 155, suggesting a final score of Kansas 82.5, Michigan
State 72.5 (you pick the roundings). Meanwhile, the Vegas total is 147.5,
suggesting a final score of Kansas 78, Michigan State 70.
Real Time gives Kansas a 7.0 point margin, with a 62.7 percent probability of
winning the game, and a final score of Kansas 80, Michigan State 73.
Kansas remains at #3 in the RPI behind Villanova and Arizona, according to
Collegiate Basketball News.
Dolphin gives Kansas a 6.4 point margin, with a 71.0 percent probability of
winning, and a final score of Kansas 77, Michigan State 71.
Colley gives Kansas a 10.9 point margin using the scaling factor of 42.23
as determined previously.
Whitlock gives Kansas an 8.0 point margin using the scaling factor of 0.730 as
determined previously.
The new and improved BPI gives Kansas a 10.2 point margin, with an 82.9 percent
probability of winning.
Kansas remains at #7 in the LRMC.
Seven Overtimes gives Kansas an 8.0 point margin with a 65 percent probability
of winning the game and a final score of Kansas 78, Michigan State 70.
Crotistics gives Kansas a 6.6 point margin.
Don Davis gives Kansas an 8.0 point margin.
There are four common opponents, one of which Kansas has played twice, giving
us five scores to compare:
KU +6 UK on road ( +9 neutral court)
MSU -21 UK neutral (-21 neutral court)
KU +30 MSU neutral (+30 neutral court)
KU +5 BU at home ( +2 neutral court) KU +2 BU on road ( +5 neutral court)
MSU -15 BU neutral (-15 neutral court) MSU -15 BU neutral (-15 neutral court)
KU +17 MSU neutral (+17 neutral court) KU +20 MSU neutral (+20 neutral court)
KU +2 Duke neutral ( +2 neutral court)
MSU -9 Duke on road ( -6 neutral court)
KU +8 MSU neutral ( +8 neutral court)
KU -4 IU neutral ( -4 neutral court)
MSU -7 IU on road ( -4 neutral court)
KU 0 MSU neutral ( 0 neutral court)
Interesting that Michigan State lost all the games against the common opponents,
while Kansas either won or took to overtime all those opponents. The entire
Champions Classic is represented here. Anyway, the average is 15.0 points in
favor of Kansas, with the Kentucky and Baylor comparisons being particularly
favorable for Kansas. The Indiana comparison isn't quite fair, because Kansas
had to play against Anunoby, while he was out when the Hoosiers played the Spartans.
Players to watch: Guard Miles Bridges plays the most minutes, scores the most
points, grabs the most rebounds, and blocks the most shots, but also commits the
most turnovers; guard Cassius Winston dishes the most assists and is their leading
thief; forward Nick Ward commits the most personal fouls. Looks pretty much like
a one-man show: control Bridges and you control the game. Eron Harris, Gavin
Schilling, abd Ben Carter are all out with knee injuries; Harris, in particular,
has the third-most minutes and the third-most points. Meanwhile, Azubuike's
hand is cast-free; no indication that he's been cleared by doctors, nor would I
expect any announcement that might cause opponents to prepare for him.
So, the various prognostications range from a 6.4 point win (Dolphin) to a
15.0 point win (common opponents). The average is 8.7 points in favor of
Kansas, suggesting a final score of Kansas 78, Michigan State 69.
Rock Chalk!
=================================== Sagarin ====================================
Rate SoS PP GM Rcnt Perf Inc. Trend Mental Tufness
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- -------------- --------------
Kansas # 6 # 9 # 7 # 3 # 3 +0.4 7.1 +0.04 +/- 0.13 -0.19 +/- 0.13
Michigan State # 32 # 15 # 34 # 30 # 33 -0.5 11.4 +0.28 +/- 0.20 -0.02 +/- 0.20
= Massey = = Pomeroy = Greenfield Dunkel Real Time === RPI ===
Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate Rate SoS Rate SoS
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Kansas # 4 # 3 # 8 # 10 # 6 # 4 # 8 # 3 # 36 # 3 # 29
Michigan State # 40 # 15 # 35 # 18 # 31 # 24 # 46 # 56 # 10 #155 #307
======================= Dolphin ====================== =====
Std. Med. Pre. IRPI RPI Pair Poll Sched Recrd
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----
Kansas # 2 # 2 # 8 # 2 # 3 # 2 # 3 1.150 29-4
Michigan State # 41 # 41 # 29 # 47 # 43 # 45 # 41 0.950 20-14
= Colley = Whitlock ESPN BPI == LRMC == == 7OT === Crotistics
Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS Rate SoS
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Kansas # 2 # 22 # 5 # 6 # 8 # 19 # 7 # 3 # 17 # 15 # 11 # 24
Michigan State # 45 # 10 # 44 # 14 # 40 # 21 # 41 # 15 # 35 # 22 # 52 # 27
Here is Kansas' season, including the higher seeded opponent in the
tournament bracket, along with the cumulative probability of reaching
that level and ultimately winning the national championship (3.7 percent):
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
NEUT # 30 Indiana 99 103 +7.13 -11.13
NEUT # 9 Duke 77 75 +0.45 +1.55
HOME #174 Siena 86 65 +24.17 -3.17
HOME #168 UAB 83 63 +23.76 -3.76
HOME # 56 Georgia 65 54 +13.65 -2.65
HOME #128 NC Asheville 95 57 +21.45 +16.55
HOME #205 Long Beach State 91 61 +26.66 +3.34
HOME # 89 Stanford 89 74 +17.80 -2.80
HOME #234 Kansas City(UMKC) 105 62 +28.21 +14.79
HOME # 97 Nebraska 89 72 +18.56 -1.56
HOME # 82 Davidson 89 71 +17.18 +0.82
AWAY #223 UNLV 71 53 +21.50 -3.50
AWAY # 44 TCU 86 80 +5.43 +0.57
HOME # 33 Kansas State 90 88 +10.66 -8.66
HOME # 42 Texas Tech 85 68 +11.44 +5.56
AWAY # 59 Oklahoma 81 70 +7.70 +3.30
HOME # 22 Oklahoma State 87 80 +7.13 -0.13
AWAY # 15 Iowa State 76 72 -0.66 +4.66
HOME # 61 Texas 79 67 +13.91 -1.91
AWAY # 4 West Virginia 69 85 -4.24 -11.76
AWAY # 5 Kentucky 79 73 -3.63 +9.63
HOME # 14 Baylor 73 68 +5.27 -0.27
HOME # 15 Iowa State 89 92 +5.40 -8.40
AWAY # 33 Kansas State 74 71 +4.60 -1.60
AWAY # 42 Texas Tech 80 79 +5.38 -4.38
HOME # 4 West Virginia 84 80 +1.82 +2.18
AWAY # 14 Baylor 67 65 -0.79 +2.79
HOME # 44 TCU 87 68 +11.49 +7.51
AWAY # 61 Texas 77 67 +7.85 +2.15
HOME # 59 Oklahoma 73 63 +13.76 -3.76
AWAY # 22 Oklahoma State 90 85 +1.07 +3.93
NEUT # 44 TCU 82 85 +8.46 -11.46
NEUT #203 UC Davis 100 62 +23.54 +14.46
NEUT # 34 Michigan State +7.71 0.792 0.792
NEUT # 12 Purdue +1.44 0.562 0.445
NEUT # 8 Louisville +0.04 0.502 0.223
NEUT # 2 North Carolina -1.84 0.421 0.094
NEUT # 1 Gonzaga -2.59 0.390 0.037
Here is Michigan State's season:
SITE OPPONENT SCORE PREDIC ERROR PROB.
---- ----------------------------- ------- ------ ----- -----
NEUT # 20 Arizona 63 65 -4.30 +2.30
NEUT # 5 Kentucky 48 69 -8.31 -12.69
HOME #344 MVSU(Miss. Valley St.) 100 53 +32.92 +14.08
HOME #113 Florida Gulf Coast 78 77 +13.00 -12.00
NEUT # 94 St. John's 73 62 +7.33 +3.67
NEUT # 14 Baylor 58 73 -5.47 -9.53
NEUT # 10 Wichita State 77 72 -6.85 +11.85
AWAY # 9 Duke 69 78 -10.29 +1.29
HOME #227 Oral Roberts 80 76 +20.05 -16.05
HOME #287 Youngstown State 77 57 +24.07 -4.07
HOME #252 Tennessee Tech 71 63 +21.61 -13.61
HOME #155 Northeastern 73 81 +15.36 -23.36
HOME #100 Oakland-Mich. 77 65 +11.02 +0.98
AWAY # 36 Minnesota 75 74 -2.53 +3.53
HOME # 38 Northwestern 61 52 +3.67 +5.33
HOME #117 Rutgers 93 65 +13.35 +14.65
AWAY # 81 Penn State 63 72 +3.26 -12.26
HOME # 36 Minnesota 65 47 +3.53 +14.47
AWAY # 64 Ohio State 62 72 +0.44 -10.44
AWAY # 30 Indiana 75 82 -3.61 -3.39
HOME # 12 Purdue 73 84 -3.24 -7.76
HOME # 21 Michigan 70 62 -0.79 +8.79
AWAY # 97 Nebraska 72 61 +4.79 +6.21
AWAY # 21 Michigan 57 86 -6.85 -22.15
HOME # 68 Iowa 77 66 +7.24 +3.76
HOME # 64 Ohio State 74 66 +6.50 +1.50
AWAY # 12 Purdue 63 80 -9.30 -7.70
HOME # 97 Nebraska 88 72 +10.85 +5.15
HOME # 17 Wisconsin 84 74 -2.16 +12.16
AWAY # 67 Illinois 70 73 +1.14 -4.14
AWAY # 47 Maryland 60 63 -1.50 -1.50
NEUT # 81 Penn State 78 51 +6.29 +20.71
NEUT # 36 Minnesota 58 63 +0.50 -5.50
NEUT # 32 Miami-Florida 78 58 -0.13 +20.13
NEUT # 7 Kansas -7.71 0.208
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #12682
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Thank you, Sir Asteroid, as always!
RE:
"Looks pretty much like a one-man show: control Bridges and you control the game."
If he's having a good day, I foresee some classic Self box-and-one, maybe triangle-and-two tourney-rollout defenses. He's been known to do this in prior years.
Bridges is close with Jackson, btw, and was MSU's "point" when they were intensely recruiting Josh. I suspect that will provide added juice to Bridges' and MSU's game today.
I read somewhere that Izzo is something like 16-1 in round of 32 games? Hopefully that's 16-2 after today.
Kansas is CLEARLY the better team, and the lads just have to come out and play their game. Be loose yet be atracking, on every possession on both ends. Do not take the foot off the gas until the final bell, like Purdue almost fatally did last night. We are the dominant team, with the far better season, with the richly deserving young men and staff. Here's to them all performing at the top of their games, and the basketball gods rewarding them for that with a convincing W!
Rock Chalk, go get 'em, Hawks!
RE:
"Looks pretty much like a one-man show: control Bridges and you control the game."
If he's having a good day, I foresee some classic Self box-and-one, maybe triangle-and-two tourney-rollout defenses. He's been known to do this in prior years.
Bridges is close with Jackson, btw, and was MSU's "point" when they were intensely recruiting Josh. I suspect that will provide added juice to Bridges' and MSU's game today.
I read somewhere that Izzo is something like 16-1 in round of 32 games? Hopefully that's 16-2 after today.
Kansas is CLEARLY the better team, and the lads just have to come out and play their game. Be loose yet be atracking, on every possession on both ends. Do not take the foot off the gas until the final bell, like Purdue almost fatally did last night. We are the dominant team, with the far better season, with the richly deserving young men and staff. Here's to them all performing at the top of their games, and the basketball gods rewarding them for that with a convincing W!
Rock Chalk, go get 'em, Hawks!
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 7 years 8 months ago by konza63.
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #12685
by Wheatstate Gal
To quote Coach Herb Brooks:
"Play your game; play your game"
I have confidence in our guys....my worry? If Landen has to sit for any prolonged periods of time. Does izzo have 20 or so fouls on the bench to throw at him to tire his bottom out? I'm not sure I was ever prouder of someone coming off the bench to SCHOOL an opponent as I was Cole in the 2008 natl semis. Are one of our long and lanky lads ready or our own beefy guy, Dwight?
Lace 'em UP, fellas. Play smart, play hard and lets head home to Kansas (City)!
(RATS!!!!!! THANKS ASTEROID, as always....I may not get it all, but I ALWAYS look forward to your game day post!!!)
"Play your game; play your game"
I have confidence in our guys....my worry? If Landen has to sit for any prolonged periods of time. Does izzo have 20 or so fouls on the bench to throw at him to tire his bottom out? I'm not sure I was ever prouder of someone coming off the bench to SCHOOL an opponent as I was Cole in the 2008 natl semis. Are one of our long and lanky lads ready or our own beefy guy, Dwight?
Lace 'em UP, fellas. Play smart, play hard and lets head home to Kansas (City)!
(RATS!!!!!! THANKS ASTEROID, as always....I may not get it all, but I ALWAYS look forward to your game day post!!!)
Last Edit: 7 years 8 months ago by Wheatstate Gal.
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- HawkErrant
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7 years 8 months ago #12692
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Mahalo, asteroid!
May your prognostication become reality!
GO JAYHAWKS!
May your prognostication become reality!
GO JAYHAWKS!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- asteroid
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7 years 8 months ago #12743
by asteroid
Probability of an NC is now up to 5.4 percent, having defeated Sparty and with Louisville replaced by Oregon.
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7 years 8 months ago - 7 years 8 months ago #12745
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Oregon has to win first.
(Down 8 at the half)
(Down 8 at the half)
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 7 years 8 months ago by konza63.
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7 years 8 months ago #12747
by mtnMan
Interesting to look back and see that most of the predictions had Mich St with about 70 points. When KU got to 80, Reggie Miller said that he didn't think Mich St had enough offense to get to 80, and he was right.
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7 years 8 months ago #12752
by OreadExpress
Really this game needed to be played in the 60s to around 70 for MSU...the higher the scoring got, the better for the good guys.
A great 2 game tournament for the Jayhawks. Let's win next weekend's tourney also.
A great 2 game tournament for the Jayhawks. Let's win next weekend's tourney also.
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7 years 8 months ago #12787
by asteroid
Updated Sagarin ratings are out. Chances of a Final Four are 34.2 percent, and chances of a National Championship are 6.0 percent. We're favorites in the next two games in the 1 to 2 point range, and we're underdogs in the FF in the 1 to 2 point range. Keep playing double digits above expectation and we've got this.
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