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Frank looks exhausted...where is the Devonte of 2015-16?

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7 years 9 months ago #11129 by konza63
Frank looks so tired. And he looked tired just 10 minutes into this game. :( I think the 35-37 minute games have really taken their toll. I registered this concern within the first 10 games of the season, and I'm sorry to say that it looks like it's coming to fruition.

Meanwhile, the guy who has to step up to take some of the pressure off of Frank is Devonte. He played horribly against the Cyclones, and he's a non-factor tonight. It's like he's lost his swag and mojo. He was a STUD last year, and the player who willed us to that crazy win at OU last year has disappeared. Is it because he's backed off to allow Josh to take the 2nd lead spot after Frank? I don't know, but it's very frustrating. Given Svi's superb and steady evolution over the course of this season, if we had the Devonte from last year, I feel we'd be almost unbeatable. Now that Frank is playing on fumes, Graham needs to step it up!

One final comment: Bragg has played well tonight. I thought he'd be a bit rusty, but so far so good. Keep it up! (If we had had him on hand Saturday, we would've won--a few more rebounds, better offensive hands than Landon, and some spelling of Lucas as the lone big--no doubt in my mind, we wouldn't have lost that game)

Hope we get 'er done in the 2nd half!

Rock Chalk...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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7 years 9 months ago #11131 by NYCJayhawk
He looks average...and no one else is stepping up to let him rest. But he's making so many mental mistakes!

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7 years 9 months ago #11140 by AZhawk87
Interesting question. I texted my friends during the game that Graham is looking fairly average this year. I do think he's deferring to SVI and Jackson, but also I think their talent is overshadowing Graham's.

He has almost no slash game, and isn't getting himself open other than a few threes per game.

i think he's a four year guy and will be a very good Jayhawk, but not as a star.

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7 years 9 months ago #11142 by porthawk
I was thinking the same thing about Bragg, Konza! Lots of bounce and energy. After he went to the locker room when he hurt his ankle, he came back out and seemed ready to go. Then we didn't see him the rest of the way. I hope his ankle is okay.

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7 years 9 months ago #11143 by konza63
I would LOVE for him to return next year, and with this kind of season he may have no choice--unless he wants to go overseas or flounder in the D-League. I actually differ slightly with you on the closing line, in that I think he could assume a much bigger (star) role next year since Frank and Josh will be gone and we'll have a new guy at point in Malik. Devonte has shown that he can play at a really high level (as per last year, especially in Feb-Mar), but he's just been kind of blending into the woodwork a lot this year.

I will say, though, that he made some important plays in the 2nd half, and he was clutch at the line when he became our go-to guy against the press. Self wanted him to be the man at the line, and he rewarded that trust. He also hit a big 3 and played D with a lot of energy. It wasn't a "star" effort, but it wasn't bad. I noticed, too, that he dished 6 assists tonight and grabbed 7 rebounds, which speaks to team play and hustle.

Going forward, though, I'm hoping he can spell Frank a bit at times in terms of being more aggressive--but in the flow of the offense, not just chucking stuff up. I also wish he'd drive more, as you noted. It's interesting--Svi, of all people, has become our third best driver behind Frank and Josh, which tells you something about Svi's growth but also Graham's more one-dimensional game this season.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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7 years 9 months ago #11150 by NotOstertag
I have to disagree about the Devonte thing. I think he's playing well overall, just not with a ton of flash. Also consider that he's playing alongside Frank who's a contender for POY, so ANYBODY is going to look lackluster next to him (not to mention Jackson who is a human highlight reel).

I think it's just Devonte knowing his role. He's got an exceptionally solid handle, distributes the ball well, and can hit the open 3. What's not to love? Does he have Frank's "slashing-to-the-rim-while-drawing-contact" ability? Nope. Neither do 99.999% of players on this planet.

Nevertheless, with the exception of Bragg, they all looked dog tired. Glad that Self is giving them a couple days off practice. Let them recharge the batteries a little. (Just don't go out and do anything stupid with your free time, fellas!). That's the love/hate about Big Monday games: hate the short turnaround from Saturday, but love the fact that they have more recovery time before the next one. Now is a good time for this break. They just finished a TOUGH stretch of games, and now they can reset for the final push.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot
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7 years 9 months ago #11173 by MountainHawk
I agree with NotO.

DG: 3rd on team in scoring, 1st in 3 PT/FG, 3rd FT, 2nd Assists, 3rd TO, 2nd steals, 6th PF.
He has been known to play solid D when given a tough assignment.

I thought Frank III looked sick.

Source: KU Athletics

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7 years 9 months ago #11175 by AZhawk87
Don't get me wrong, I love DG, and he's a big part of this team. He's a solid, upper level D-1 player, and likely is just filling his role this year like a great teammate.

But my belief is that he didn't have a quantum leap in skill or performance over last year, and is not a draft prospect this year like some of us (me) thought he might become. I think he could become a pro, but it's not as clear cut as I thought it looked last year.

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7 years 9 months ago #11179 by hairyhawk
That is my take on it as well. Devonte is playing well. Towards the end of last year he was great. He out played Buddy when we matched up in OK and he kept us in the game against Villanova. I hope I did not give the impression that I thought he was playing poorly. I am just saying he has not been such a force that folks are talking about him being a 1st round pick after this year like I thought would happen after the way last year ended. It is one of these 1st world problems.
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7 years 9 months ago - 7 years 9 months ago #11185 by konza63
Good posts, all. I absolutely love Devonte too, and wouldn't trade our backcourt for any in the country. So I'll state that right up-front. Dude is a stud.

My post the other night (in the midst of the game, of course) was one of those "gut" feels, not grounded in deep quantitative analysis. It was an impression and nothing else. A sense that he's just a bit more reserved than last year, and that in those games where Frank is super tired, we need Devonte -- who has not been forced to carry the load given Frank's leadership -- to step up some more.

More on that in a second...

As for the quant side, I took a look at his game logs from last season, compared with this season (so far), for I felt that this would be the truest measure of the issue. What I found was this:

Last year, he had 8 games in which he scored 15 or more points, 3 games in which he scored 20 or more points, and 2 games in which he scored 25 or more points (27, 27, vs. our two toughest foes last season, OU and WVU).

This year, he has already had 8 games in which he scored 15 or more, 2 games at 20 or more, and 0 at 25 or more. He also has had less games this year of only scoring in single digits.

Thus, the stats bear out what some have said on here, going against my "gut" take the other night that he needed to step up more. I will take the hit on that but I will emphasize the primary point that I was trying to make (even if I wasn't very articulate about it while typing quickly in the middle of a game):

Frank is tired. Very tired. He's been used, used, and overused. So the point was that Frank cannot always be counted on, game after game, key possession after key possession, to be "the man." Devonte has to step up in those moments too, as he did last year in those key games against our toughest foes. In our 3 losses this year, that hasn't happened: Devonte has shot 13 of 34 from the floor. I will add that there are nights when our primary complementary scoring threat to Frank (Josh) is off or way off his game. In those instances, if not only Frank is tired but Josh is having a very quiet or off night, we REALLY need the "highly confident Devonte" (the dude with the swag at OU last year) to let it rip.

Bottom line: he's having a good year. Not a great year, a breakout year, or a superstar year, but a solid, good year. His stats are largely where they were last year, with some modest upticks in certain key measures such as PPG (+2.0), A:TO, and 2PFG%. His 3PFG% has slid (44% down to 39%), but that's the only key area of decline I could find. What I'd like to see perhaps more of is high energy and confidence, and a bit more aggression in specific possessions -- particularly when the opponent is tougher and game stakes are higher -- when Frank is obviously winded, gassed, and in need of someone else to "take the conn" for a spell. (Recall in the KSU game that at times, when 9 other players were down in a half-court set with the ball in play there, Frank was just walking up to mid-court. He's beat. Help him!)

Rock Chalk...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by konza63.

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7 years 9 months ago #11189 by NotOstertag
Good info on the stats. Thanks for passing that along.

Devonte is playing co-star to Frank's star status. In the end, however, he come through when needed. Wasn't Frank hurt for a while when Devonte was a freshman, and Devonte stood in very well? (memory fades) He's got it in him, but I agree that maybe Frank or HCBS needs to tell him to take over every now and then when Frank's energizers wear out. Then again, I don't see Frank as a guy who would ever admit to weakness, tiredness, or ask for help on the basketball court. The guy kills himself. Probably more of a job for Self to TELL Frank to ease up and hand the reins over to Devonte.

Final thought: Devonte doesn't play with the same kind of reckless abandon that Frank does. When Frank decides to go north/south it's truly exceptional and I wouldn't fault Devonte for not having that kind of ability to drive into the trees and find the rim or a foul. Kid is amazing. It'll be interesting to see where he lands in the NBA.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot

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7 years 9 months ago #11191 by konza63

I don't see Frank as a guy who would ever admit to weakness, tiredness, or ask for help on the basketball court. The guy kills himself. Probably more of a job for Self to TELL Frank to ease up and hand the reins over to Devonte.


Totally. I almost put that caveat in my earlier post when I emphasized that Frank is tired: Frank is telling Holly Rowe and anyone who asks that he feels great, has tons of energy, etc. But the reality says otherwise, as was evident when Frank was visibly winded and walking up the court (to get back on defense) while KSU played 5 on 4 for several seconds--within the first 10 minutes of the first half. And that underscores the need to get him rest (which Self is doing, thankfully) in between games but for Devonte to pick up a little slack when necessary, alongside Josh and Svi.

In sync.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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