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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
+/- Game 6
- CorpusJayhawk
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7 years 11 months ago #9533
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
The +/- for game 6 would indicate that Svi was very effective. Dok was also very effective. Heck, everybody was effective but these two were the most effective. Offensively the team did best with Dok, Devonte' and Josh in the game. Defensively the team did best with Lucas, Bragg and Svi in the game. Overall, it was Svi, Dok and Devonte'. So how can Mason play so well and yet not have a good +/-? Part of the issue is the weakness of the +/-. It is purely a team stat which is a big positive for this stat. But if a player just gets in when the team is making a run and then sits it can skew the data over a short period even over a single game. The +/- becomes a pretty valid stat over a longer period. But back to Mason. A bigger reason may be that we tend to focus on flashy play and things that are more individual but do not necessarily make the team more effective. Remember, the best attribute of the +/- is it is a team based stat. So I am inclined to say that Mason did not have as good a game as these other guys even though he scored a lot.
For the season, it still indicates that Bragg has been the overall most effective player. Or stating it another way, the Jayhawks have generally been more effective with Bragg on the floor than any other player. In 105 minutes that Bragg has played KU has outscored the opponent by 80. Conversely, Mason has played 209 minutes and in that time KU has outscored the opponent by only 71. For the season the three players that have been on the court when KU was most effective offensively are Bragg, Dok and Jackson. Defensively the team is very consistent with very little difference with the exception that Bragg is about 15-20% more effective and Jackson has been about 5-10% less effective. That has changed a lot over the last couple games. Actually, Coleby has by far the best defensive effectiveness but he has played only 29 minutes and did not play against the best teams we have played so that is not valid. So even though Bragg has been very bad at times, he has overall been very effective when on the floor in terms of the team being more effective.
For the season, it still indicates that Bragg has been the overall most effective player. Or stating it another way, the Jayhawks have generally been more effective with Bragg on the floor than any other player. In 105 minutes that Bragg has played KU has outscored the opponent by 80. Conversely, Mason has played 209 minutes and in that time KU has outscored the opponent by only 71. For the season the three players that have been on the court when KU was most effective offensively are Bragg, Dok and Jackson. Defensively the team is very consistent with very little difference with the exception that Bragg is about 15-20% more effective and Jackson has been about 5-10% less effective. That has changed a lot over the last couple games. Actually, Coleby has by far the best defensive effectiveness but he has played only 29 minutes and did not play against the best teams we have played so that is not valid. So even though Bragg has been very bad at times, he has overall been very effective when on the floor in terms of the team being more effective.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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- hairyhawk
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7 years 11 months ago #9555
by hairyhawk
I am not sure what to make of Mason's +/- being not as good. I think when we play these less talented teams we wear them down. They start out with such adrenaline that they make some plays early but as the game wears on we keep throwing more guys at them and later they can't hang. I thought the Siena game was an example of that. I wonder if Frank is wearing them down and when he sits the other team tries to rest which plays into our hands. It's just a theory a game theory....sorta.
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- CorpusJayhawk
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7 years 11 months ago #9560
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
Using this stat to make a point that Frank is not as valuable as other stats, including the eye test, might indicate is the trap this stat leads to because of it's inherent weakness. It is somewhat coincidental that Bragg has played only those minutes where KU has had runs and when the run is subsiding Bragg gets pulled. So his +/- is inflated but not necessarily reflective of his personal contribution. I like this stat a lot and if you understand how to use it it can lead to insight that is not always apparent. Some players have an impact on the outcome far more than their individual stat line may indicate. Some players do lots of subtle things that has a direct impact on the outcome but are not obvious. There have been two players in the last 10 years that epitomize this. Darnell Jackson actually was third on the 2008 team in +/- but did not have gaudy stats. And Travis Releford his senior year led the team by a good margin even though his stats were not particularly great. These guys brought something on the floor that made the team perform better. Setting screens, blocking out while someone else grabs a rebound, shutting down an opposing player on defense, etc. There is no question Frank is the man this year thus far. But he has played 85% of the time so he is in for the runs and in for the runs by the other team. The question is not whether Frank is effective, we can all see that he is. The question in my mind and my point is that save for 1 game and half of another, Bragg has actually been pretty effective. Landen on the other hand has been pretty bad in all but one game.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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- Hawknmo
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7 years 11 months ago #9569
by Hawknmo
RKCKJHK!!!
Not the stat expert that Corpus is but how about the fact that Frank NEVER comes out. His +|- would have to be worse because unless we are winning all the games by 50 hes out there for the other teams runs as well. Bragg makes one mistake and gets the hook. Thus his minus go down the minute he comes out. Again...just a thought.
RKCKJHK!!!
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