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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
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Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
The on-court impact of Ellis's and Wayne's departures
- konza63
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8 years 7 months ago #7464
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
I posted these thoughts in the "Ellis" thread, upon hearing about Wayne today, but in case that gets lost decided to re-post here...since it's a bit more of a tactical ("what now?") discussion than the one wishing Wayne well in his next chapter.
______________________
31 PPG just went out the door. The top 2 scorers, and well over one-third of our team point production.
We have bodies to help out at the 4 spot and pick up some of Perry's slack--most notably, Carlton. That won't happen overnight, but at least there is someone waiting in the wings.
As for Wayne, our first hope must be to land Josh Jackson, who could plug right in at the 3. Barring that, we'll be going with Svi, I would presume, along with Vick and Brannen gaining more PT on the wings.
It should be interesting, but make no mistake about it, we just lost two seasoned vets and our top scorers, which is anything but a trivial loss.
______________________
31 PPG just went out the door. The top 2 scorers, and well over one-third of our team point production.
We have bodies to help out at the 4 spot and pick up some of Perry's slack--most notably, Carlton. That won't happen overnight, but at least there is someone waiting in the wings.
As for Wayne, our first hope must be to land Josh Jackson, who could plug right in at the 3. Barring that, we'll be going with Svi, I would presume, along with Vick and Brannen gaining more PT on the wings.
It should be interesting, but make no mistake about it, we just lost two seasoned vets and our top scorers, which is anything but a trivial loss.
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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8 years 7 months ago #7472
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
College basketball is a funny thing. Can't miss Hamburger MOP's miss and consensus destined to be always mediocre players rise to flirt with greatness. There is no doubt that losing players like Selden and Ellis will force great changes to this team. There is also no doubt that there is latent potential in others that is just waiting to coalesce into greatness. Here are some possibilities to ponder.
THE CORE
Devonte' -- Despite the crimson and blue vision that would have Devonte' as a near AA, he had pretty good holes in his game this year. But he also steadily improved and was a markedly better player at the end of the season. His decision making is suspect at times and his intangibles are not quite to elite level. But again he showed radical and steady improvement. Is next season his time to step it up again and flirt with elite status? Very possibly, and that could be huge.
Frank -- Frank regressed this year. I am not sure why but he regressed. Actually that is not fair. He was not worse this season than his sophomore season but he was less consistent and overall I would say no better. That is not a slam because Frank is pretty dadgum good. Frank was way too inconsistent this year for an elite level PG on a championship caliber team. Having said that, his bad games were still not bad just mediocre or a little less. Where I was a little suprised with Frank was his decision making. More than a few games this year, his decision making was just confounding. I don't know every play the Jayhawks run but I know enough to see an occasional busted move. Devonte and Frank both make questionable decisions at times. Again, compared to a run of the mill player, they are pretty consistently very good to better than very good. I am talking about championship level execution. So is Frank in store for a slight uptick in performance and mostly consistently good decision making? Very possibly and that would be significant.
Landen -- Here is a rule you can bank on. Smart basketball players virtually always imporve steadily. Now I did not say rapidly but definitely steadily. Landen actually did imporve this season far more rapidly than even I thought and I was pretty much his biggest fan at the beginning of the season. My prediction, he will be better next season. He will be stronger, a little better on offense, and even more fundamentally solid. He can taste his last hurrah as a senior and he will use that as motivation to work his butt off. that is what smart players do. I am not predicting some sort of phone booth Superman type event but definitely steady growth. He will be a more than solid starting center next season. We are lucky to have him. He is the current incarnation of a long line of KU players like Travis Releford, Brady Morningstar, Tyrel Reed, Kevin Young, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Aaron Miles, etc. Smart players who steadily improve. In the case of Hinrich and Collison, they started very very good and still improved.
THE READY TO SHINE
Carlton - Carlton clearly has upside written all over him. An offense designed around his skill set could be a huge catalyst for him. He moves well without the ball, he can shoot very well, he can handle the ball way better than average, he can even create to some degree. He may be a burgeoning offensive star. But can he play defense? Let's call it like it is. His defense was just terrible this season. He is not slow nor does he seem to be dim-witted. So his poor defense was a little confounding. The obvious deficiency is his strength. Hudy should bust this kid up over the summer and buff him up. 20 pounds of muscle and stonger legs will change much of his defense. The rest is just reps. I think Carlton has huge upside and could be a huge upside surprise next season.
Svi - Svi was another player to grow pretty steadily. His defense was sometimes outstanding and sometimes he simply appeared to lose focus. He mainly lost focus when he had to guard a smaller quicker guy. He is pretty quick himself and I suspect the one thing he will work on most in the off-season is his first step and cross-over dribble move. Well that and his shooting. I was down on Svi after his freshman year. I am pretty high on him now. He could be better than Wayne. You hear it here first. He could not only fill Waynes shoes but he could be better. I am not yet ready to say that is the probability but it is a stong possibility. He will be a huge contributor and could very possibly have his breakout season.
THE COULD BE GUYS
Lagerald -- Does nayone remember Nicky Bradford? Lagerald is a clone. He has that same style game but with a better shot. He is not as tall but a better shooter and probably more athletic. Lagerald could be a solid bench guy next season, He is long and has a quick first step. He needs to get much better at handling the ball and learn to use his body on defense. Heck, he just needs to learn how to play in real minutes and not just trash time where defense is just a theory more than a reality. But I can hinestly see him getting 10+ minutes a game and making people happy he is on the bench.
Brannen -- Before this season I predicted Brannen and Landen would be the breakout guys this season. I batted .500. Brannen remains an enigma. I could see him leaving, I could see him staying and being a star or I could see him having a carbon copy season to this past season. I frankly don't know what to think of Brannen. So he is a solid COULD BE guy.
THE WHAT IF'S
Josh Jackson -- All of the sudden we need this kid. As I said above, Svi could be the butterfly player next season but wow, what if we got Jackson and you had a Backcourt of Frank, Devonte', Svi, and Josh with a little Lagerald to spice it up? That couls be pretty spectacular. Let's hope he chooses KU.
Colbey -- I know some of you are not optimistic on this guy and I have no clue. I know nothing about him. But unlike this season, we are going to be razor thin in the front court next season.
Lightfoot -- I have read only that this kid has great athleticism and he loves KU. Any contribution at this point seems pretty unlikely but for all I know he may be the next coming and take the KU world by storm. So her is hoping he is a real surprise.
Azubuike -- Same as lighfoot only bigger, stronger and more post type. He will likely get some serious PT and let's hope he is worthy of it.
YTBS -- (yet to be signed) We are in the running for some pretty decent bigs. Bolden and Thon Maker seem to be the two that could fill the bill. Maker has seemed a little like a flake but I have also seen videos of him that are jaw dropping. Bolden is a man child like Azubuike. Here's to hoping we sign a front court difference maker.
Other things to think about.
1. Is Kurtis Townsend finally gone to WKU? That would be a big loss.
2. Does Evan Manning join the staff? Seems almost destined to be.
3. Does Aaron Miles stay around and continue to mentor Devonte'? This seemed to be a key to D'te's development.
4. Does Pop retire and Self bolt for the San Antonio Spurs to work with his best friend the GM? Far-fetched but the only NBA job that seems appealing to Self.
5. Can Ghost Busters 3 possibly be worthy of the original?
5.
THE CORE
Devonte' -- Despite the crimson and blue vision that would have Devonte' as a near AA, he had pretty good holes in his game this year. But he also steadily improved and was a markedly better player at the end of the season. His decision making is suspect at times and his intangibles are not quite to elite level. But again he showed radical and steady improvement. Is next season his time to step it up again and flirt with elite status? Very possibly, and that could be huge.
Frank -- Frank regressed this year. I am not sure why but he regressed. Actually that is not fair. He was not worse this season than his sophomore season but he was less consistent and overall I would say no better. That is not a slam because Frank is pretty dadgum good. Frank was way too inconsistent this year for an elite level PG on a championship caliber team. Having said that, his bad games were still not bad just mediocre or a little less. Where I was a little suprised with Frank was his decision making. More than a few games this year, his decision making was just confounding. I don't know every play the Jayhawks run but I know enough to see an occasional busted move. Devonte and Frank both make questionable decisions at times. Again, compared to a run of the mill player, they are pretty consistently very good to better than very good. I am talking about championship level execution. So is Frank in store for a slight uptick in performance and mostly consistently good decision making? Very possibly and that would be significant.
Landen -- Here is a rule you can bank on. Smart basketball players virtually always imporve steadily. Now I did not say rapidly but definitely steadily. Landen actually did imporve this season far more rapidly than even I thought and I was pretty much his biggest fan at the beginning of the season. My prediction, he will be better next season. He will be stronger, a little better on offense, and even more fundamentally solid. He can taste his last hurrah as a senior and he will use that as motivation to work his butt off. that is what smart players do. I am not predicting some sort of phone booth Superman type event but definitely steady growth. He will be a more than solid starting center next season. We are lucky to have him. He is the current incarnation of a long line of KU players like Travis Releford, Brady Morningstar, Tyrel Reed, Kevin Young, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Aaron Miles, etc. Smart players who steadily improve. In the case of Hinrich and Collison, they started very very good and still improved.
THE READY TO SHINE
Carlton - Carlton clearly has upside written all over him. An offense designed around his skill set could be a huge catalyst for him. He moves well without the ball, he can shoot very well, he can handle the ball way better than average, he can even create to some degree. He may be a burgeoning offensive star. But can he play defense? Let's call it like it is. His defense was just terrible this season. He is not slow nor does he seem to be dim-witted. So his poor defense was a little confounding. The obvious deficiency is his strength. Hudy should bust this kid up over the summer and buff him up. 20 pounds of muscle and stonger legs will change much of his defense. The rest is just reps. I think Carlton has huge upside and could be a huge upside surprise next season.
Svi - Svi was another player to grow pretty steadily. His defense was sometimes outstanding and sometimes he simply appeared to lose focus. He mainly lost focus when he had to guard a smaller quicker guy. He is pretty quick himself and I suspect the one thing he will work on most in the off-season is his first step and cross-over dribble move. Well that and his shooting. I was down on Svi after his freshman year. I am pretty high on him now. He could be better than Wayne. You hear it here first. He could not only fill Waynes shoes but he could be better. I am not yet ready to say that is the probability but it is a stong possibility. He will be a huge contributor and could very possibly have his breakout season.
THE COULD BE GUYS
Lagerald -- Does nayone remember Nicky Bradford? Lagerald is a clone. He has that same style game but with a better shot. He is not as tall but a better shooter and probably more athletic. Lagerald could be a solid bench guy next season, He is long and has a quick first step. He needs to get much better at handling the ball and learn to use his body on defense. Heck, he just needs to learn how to play in real minutes and not just trash time where defense is just a theory more than a reality. But I can hinestly see him getting 10+ minutes a game and making people happy he is on the bench.
Brannen -- Before this season I predicted Brannen and Landen would be the breakout guys this season. I batted .500. Brannen remains an enigma. I could see him leaving, I could see him staying and being a star or I could see him having a carbon copy season to this past season. I frankly don't know what to think of Brannen. So he is a solid COULD BE guy.
THE WHAT IF'S
Josh Jackson -- All of the sudden we need this kid. As I said above, Svi could be the butterfly player next season but wow, what if we got Jackson and you had a Backcourt of Frank, Devonte', Svi, and Josh with a little Lagerald to spice it up? That couls be pretty spectacular. Let's hope he chooses KU.
Colbey -- I know some of you are not optimistic on this guy and I have no clue. I know nothing about him. But unlike this season, we are going to be razor thin in the front court next season.
Lightfoot -- I have read only that this kid has great athleticism and he loves KU. Any contribution at this point seems pretty unlikely but for all I know he may be the next coming and take the KU world by storm. So her is hoping he is a real surprise.
Azubuike -- Same as lighfoot only bigger, stronger and more post type. He will likely get some serious PT and let's hope he is worthy of it.
YTBS -- (yet to be signed) We are in the running for some pretty decent bigs. Bolden and Thon Maker seem to be the two that could fill the bill. Maker has seemed a little like a flake but I have also seen videos of him that are jaw dropping. Bolden is a man child like Azubuike. Here's to hoping we sign a front court difference maker.
Other things to think about.
1. Is Kurtis Townsend finally gone to WKU? That would be a big loss.
2. Does Evan Manning join the staff? Seems almost destined to be.
3. Does Aaron Miles stay around and continue to mentor Devonte'? This seemed to be a key to D'te's development.
4. Does Pop retire and Self bolt for the San Antonio Spurs to work with his best friend the GM? Far-fetched but the only NBA job that seems appealing to Self.
5. Can Ghost Busters 3 possibly be worthy of the original?
5.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7473
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Selden's departure actually helps us in landing Josh Jackson. I think one of the things he has been waiting for in his decision making process is to see what Wayne was going to do. With this news I am hoping we have an announcement that he's coming to KU as soon as he can get his family and friends in agreement on a date everyone can be available to be there with him.
Josh Jackson interview
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 8 years 7 months ago by HawkErrant.
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8 years 7 months ago #7475
by LSHawk
In a recent post-game interview, Evan said he has a job in, I think he said Cincinnati with a group that sets up sports camps around the country...
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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7482
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Using your template...
THE CORE
Devonté -- I am really hoping that D makes steady improvement every year, in addition to adding some strength in his AH sessions. If his game IQ improves in step with his physical skills, he could end up being all conference in his KU career.
Frank -- As with D, to my mind it comes down more to what he improves between the ears than to physical development. Hopefully he will get through the year without being so banged up at year end. That had to have hurt his recent performances.
Landen -- I smiled when you mentioned Superman because of the history of LLs in Superman lore . I just know the lad is going to have a solid senior season!
THE READY TO SHINE
Carlton - as you wrote -- Hudy will be key in his development. Between that, his natural O skiils and having that much more experience with Self's teachings -- I think he will do so well that he will be gone after next year.
Svi - What you said! The kid is still physically maturing, and that will be huge for him next year. He is another that I suspect will be gone after next year.
THE COULD BE GUYS
Lagerald -- I *do* remember Nicky Bradford! If Vick can bring that kind of energy to the court (without the craziness! Okay, okay, if he wants to do the high socks bit, that's cool! ), along with his better skill set, we are going to love the dickens out of him!
Brannen -- There is a lot of rumor on the Internet that he will transfer, especially after his recent tweet that some have interpreted as a farewell to KU. However, unless he is graduating before the end of this summer session, he would have to sit out for a year, and as a senior that would just delay his transition to a possible pro career. The kid can shoot like a pro, it's just a question of will he develop the rest of the necessary skills to be able to find a spot on a pro roster (NBA or Oseas)? I hope he stays for his last hurrah, I've got a feeling he could be special his senior year.
THE WHAT IF'S
Josh Jackson -- It's down to KU, AZ and MSU. As I noted elsewhere, Wayne's leaving is a huge enticement for him. Let's hope he's On The Hill this fall!
Colbey -- I don't know anything about him other than he is another 5 fouls to give in the paint. If he can be next year's Jeff Graves (2003 edition), I would be quite content.
Lightfoot -- Every time I read something about this kid, the guy that comes to my mind is Kevin Young
Azubuike -- what you said -- "Same as Lightfoot only bigger, stronger and more post type. He will likely get some serious PT and let's hope he is worthy of it."
YTBS -- (yet to be signed) Most of what I have read on Bolden does not have him coming to KU, especially with Udoka coming. That and $3 can buy you a decent cuppa joe. Thon Maker has been visiting Lawrence as part of a tournament, hope he likes what he saw while here. I also would hope that there is a Mark Turgeon type kid out there that Self could bring on at PG. If Diallo does not come back, KU has 3 open scholarships to fill, and Jackson, Maker plus a backup PG sounds like good recruiting for this year to me. Unfortunately, I am not aware of anyone available in the top 150 (all the uncommitted Gs are SGs) that Self & Co are looking at for that last slot.
Regarding your "Other things to think about".
1. Is Kurtis Townsend finally gone to WKU? That would be a big loss. I HOPE NOT
2. Does Evan Manning join the staff? Seems almost destined to be. NO CLUE
3. Does Aaron Miles stay around and continue to mentor Devonte'? THAT WOULD BE GREAT!
4. Does Pop retire and Self bolt for the San Antonio Spurs to work with his best friend the GM? Far-fetched but the only NBA job that seems appealing to Self. DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING
5. Can Ghost Busters 3 possibly be worthy of the original? NOT FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD
THE CORE
Devonté -- I am really hoping that D makes steady improvement every year, in addition to adding some strength in his AH sessions. If his game IQ improves in step with his physical skills, he could end up being all conference in his KU career.
Frank -- As with D, to my mind it comes down more to what he improves between the ears than to physical development. Hopefully he will get through the year without being so banged up at year end. That had to have hurt his recent performances.
Landen -- I smiled when you mentioned Superman because of the history of LLs in Superman lore . I just know the lad is going to have a solid senior season!
THE READY TO SHINE
Carlton - as you wrote -- Hudy will be key in his development. Between that, his natural O skiils and having that much more experience with Self's teachings -- I think he will do so well that he will be gone after next year.
Svi - What you said! The kid is still physically maturing, and that will be huge for him next year. He is another that I suspect will be gone after next year.
THE COULD BE GUYS
Lagerald -- I *do* remember Nicky Bradford! If Vick can bring that kind of energy to the court (without the craziness! Okay, okay, if he wants to do the high socks bit, that's cool! ), along with his better skill set, we are going to love the dickens out of him!
Brannen -- There is a lot of rumor on the Internet that he will transfer, especially after his recent tweet that some have interpreted as a farewell to KU. However, unless he is graduating before the end of this summer session, he would have to sit out for a year, and as a senior that would just delay his transition to a possible pro career. The kid can shoot like a pro, it's just a question of will he develop the rest of the necessary skills to be able to find a spot on a pro roster (NBA or Oseas)? I hope he stays for his last hurrah, I've got a feeling he could be special his senior year.
THE WHAT IF'S
Josh Jackson -- It's down to KU, AZ and MSU. As I noted elsewhere, Wayne's leaving is a huge enticement for him. Let's hope he's On The Hill this fall!
Colbey -- I don't know anything about him other than he is another 5 fouls to give in the paint. If he can be next year's Jeff Graves (2003 edition), I would be quite content.
Lightfoot -- Every time I read something about this kid, the guy that comes to my mind is Kevin Young
Azubuike -- what you said -- "Same as Lightfoot only bigger, stronger and more post type. He will likely get some serious PT and let's hope he is worthy of it."
YTBS -- (yet to be signed) Most of what I have read on Bolden does not have him coming to KU, especially with Udoka coming. That and $3 can buy you a decent cuppa joe. Thon Maker has been visiting Lawrence as part of a tournament, hope he likes what he saw while here. I also would hope that there is a Mark Turgeon type kid out there that Self could bring on at PG. If Diallo does not come back, KU has 3 open scholarships to fill, and Jackson, Maker plus a backup PG sounds like good recruiting for this year to me. Unfortunately, I am not aware of anyone available in the top 150 (all the uncommitted Gs are SGs) that Self & Co are looking at for that last slot.
Regarding your "Other things to think about".
1. Is Kurtis Townsend finally gone to WKU? That would be a big loss. I HOPE NOT
2. Does Evan Manning join the staff? Seems almost destined to be. NO CLUE
3. Does Aaron Miles stay around and continue to mentor Devonte'? THAT WOULD BE GREAT!
4. Does Pop retire and Self bolt for the San Antonio Spurs to work with his best friend the GM? Far-fetched but the only NBA job that seems appealing to Self. DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING
5. Can Ghost Busters 3 possibly be worthy of the original? NOT FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Last Edit: 8 years 7 months ago by HawkErrant. Reason: add Kurt T link
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8 years 7 months ago #7507
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Corpus and HE--this is really solid, thoughtful stuff. I just wanted to thank you guys for getting the though process on next year jump-started a little early. I'm not yet ready to pivot to that, but I'm getting there...and will weigh in at some near-future point. I do like the typology and assessments you guys have here, and look forward to thinking this through and talking it over in days/weeks ahead.
As for now, Josh Jackson--COME ON DOWN!
Rock Chalk...
As for now, Josh Jackson--COME ON DOWN!
Rock Chalk...
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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8 years 7 months ago #7511
by konza63
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Thanks for posting the Josh Jackson interview, HE. He had very nice things to say about KU, his visit, and the fan base, but the fact that he's tight with Sean Miller (having played for him a bit) and that he appears to have made his mind up before Wayne announced makes me wonder if he's an Arizona lean.
Then again, there's always the chance that perhaps even a week or two ago Self was already privately telling him that Wayne was going to depart...
Lastly, his close friend Miles Bridges committed to Michigan State (and Josh is from Michigan), so Sparty can't be counted out, either.
Ahhh, the tea leaves of college recruiting. I'll just wait to hear the news. But I really hope we land him. Sounds like he's got a very explosive penetration and rebounding game, which would be a nice complement to our shooting wings. And the kid is obviously smart and highly coachable. Fingers are crossed...
Then again, there's always the chance that perhaps even a week or two ago Self was already privately telling him that Wayne was going to depart...
Lastly, his close friend Miles Bridges committed to Michigan State (and Josh is from Michigan), so Sparty can't be counted out, either.
Ahhh, the tea leaves of college recruiting. I'll just wait to hear the news. But I really hope we land him. Sounds like he's got a very explosive penetration and rebounding game, which would be a nice complement to our shooting wings. And the kid is obviously smart and highly coachable. Fingers are crossed...
“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”
1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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