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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Reports: KU freshman Cheick Diallo to declare for NBA draft
- Sieverling
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8 years 7 months ago #7406
by Sieverling
Hic manebimus optime
Hic manebimus optime
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- murphyslaw
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8 years 7 months ago #7408
by murphyslaw
If he gets a positive report from the NBA, I wouldn't blame him for declaring, agent or not.
However, my first reaction to the news was to laugh, and then I thought this was his way of showing his displeasure at having to sit on the bench most of the season. (A tad bit of arrogance, maybe?)
But then, what do I know?
However, my first reaction to the news was to laugh, and then I thought this was his way of showing his displeasure at having to sit on the bench most of the season. (A tad bit of arrogance, maybe?)
But then, what do I know?
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- ATXJayhawk
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8 years 7 months ago #7410
by ATXJayhawk
Crimson and blue looks so much better than burnt orange!!!
He's just another player in the endless cycle of duds for the KU program. Selby, Wiggins (yes, i'm including him as a dud because he was the #1 draft pick and only gave us 4 points in his one tournament game. This is not the kind of performance you'd expect from a hyped superstar #1 draft pick is it) , Cliff, and now Diallo. Hey Bill, can you actually recruit legitmate star freshman talent? Because I'm starting to think you can't. I for one am getting sick of tired of these players who were sold as freshman saviors only to ride the pine ala Diallo.
And why would KU spend all this money to "Free Diallo" only to have him be a non factor all year. Something just doesn't sit right with me on that move at all.
And why would KU spend all this money to "Free Diallo" only to have him be a non factor all year. Something just doesn't sit right with me on that move at all.
Crimson and blue looks so much better than burnt orange!!!
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- CorpusJayhawk
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8 years 7 months ago #7414
by CorpusJayhawk
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
Check out these names.
Tyrel Reed
Kevin Young
Jeff Withey
Brady Morningstar
Tyshawn Taylor
Darnell Jackson
Russell Robinson
Travis Releford
CHristian Moody
TJ Pugh
These are the first ones to just roll off the top of my head. There are many more. These are the players that were not highly recruited but ended up being great college basketball players. They all had a few things in common. They were teachable. They were smart. They were humble. They were hard working. They were team oriented. I personally question the wisdom of the one and done. I am not categorically against it but there can be no denying, that despite the protestations by Self that Diallo will get the last laugh, in terms of Jayhawk basketball there is only one laugh. He can be laughing all he wants when wearing a 76'ers uniform or a Pistons uniform. That doesn't mean squat to me as a Jayhawk fan. My bet is that Lagerald Vick turns out to be a far better recruit than Diallo. And as for Cliff Alexander, he screwed his life up royally. I can't understand why people worship at the shrine of the big money NBA now mentality. Life is way more than earning a couple million bucks as a 20 year old. I speak from a perspective that I think can say these things with some level of understanding. MOney is neither a blessing or a curse in a vacuum. With the proper life preparedness, money is a great blessing. Without it in can be a great curse. I can say with all candor, I would steer my children 1000 miles away from a get rich quick mentality sans a life preparedness to turn that wealth into blessing rather than curse. I truly feel sorry for these kids.
Tyrel Reed
Kevin Young
Jeff Withey
Brady Morningstar
Tyshawn Taylor
Darnell Jackson
Russell Robinson
Travis Releford
CHristian Moody
TJ Pugh
These are the first ones to just roll off the top of my head. There are many more. These are the players that were not highly recruited but ended up being great college basketball players. They all had a few things in common. They were teachable. They were smart. They were humble. They were hard working. They were team oriented. I personally question the wisdom of the one and done. I am not categorically against it but there can be no denying, that despite the protestations by Self that Diallo will get the last laugh, in terms of Jayhawk basketball there is only one laugh. He can be laughing all he wants when wearing a 76'ers uniform or a Pistons uniform. That doesn't mean squat to me as a Jayhawk fan. My bet is that Lagerald Vick turns out to be a far better recruit than Diallo. And as for Cliff Alexander, he screwed his life up royally. I can't understand why people worship at the shrine of the big money NBA now mentality. Life is way more than earning a couple million bucks as a 20 year old. I speak from a perspective that I think can say these things with some level of understanding. MOney is neither a blessing or a curse in a vacuum. With the proper life preparedness, money is a great blessing. Without it in can be a great curse. I can say with all candor, I would steer my children 1000 miles away from a get rich quick mentality sans a life preparedness to turn that wealth into blessing rather than curse. I truly feel sorry for these kids.
Don't worry about the mules, just load the wagon!!
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- Senex68
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8 years 7 months ago #7417
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
4 teams will be playing next weekend, and there is not a '1 and done' among them. We recruit them because getting one or ore increases our exposure and gives us a greater likelihood of getting another one, and so on. Eventually we will get one or two who are program changers, like Lou Alcindor or Wilt, and we'll win a title, maybe. If Embiid doesn't get hurt, we probably win one his year, but otherwise the only 'one and dones' that helped us win a title were guys who came here with the intention of leaving, but didn't or couldn't. Our own 'one and dones' gave us very little joy, and a lot of angst.
Diallo is something of an oddity. He's clearly got tremendous ability, but little skill, and eventually he will probably be a terrific pro. But he would benefit enormously with at least one more year at KU, and there is a reasonable chance he comes back. I hope so. But to ask Bill Self to stop recruiting these guys is unproductive, because he has to. In some ways it helps KU by keeping these guys from going to Duke or UK, etc. Strange system, and it doesn't work well for us, or at least it hasn't.
Diallo is something of an oddity. He's clearly got tremendous ability, but little skill, and eventually he will probably be a terrific pro. But he would benefit enormously with at least one more year at KU, and there is a reasonable chance he comes back. I hope so. But to ask Bill Self to stop recruiting these guys is unproductive, because he has to. In some ways it helps KU by keeping these guys from going to Duke or UK, etc. Strange system, and it doesn't work well for us, or at least it hasn't.
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
The following user(s) said Thank You: texkan
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- AZhawk87
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8 years 7 months ago #7418
by AZhawk87
Yes, it's silly to see a Diallo who can't get one minute on a college team, but could be a millionaire come NBA draft day. But that's the system. Draft on potential. Colleges recruit on potential as well. Do you think Self didn't know that Diallo was extremely raw when he offered him a scholarship? KU spent a large sum of money to get him, knowing he was raw. How is that different from the NBA drafting him a year later? The money is greater, but who cares if rich owners pay these guys. It's not my money.
What I don't agree with is that it's somehow bad for a kid like Diallo, or almost all OAD's, to leave early. I don't believe for a minute that OAD's who flame out in the NBA do so because they leave college early. I believe they were never going to make it, and they left before their lack of talent was discovered and overshadowed their potential. They made a few bucks by getting at least a couple years of NBA money (Selby).
Those who actually have NBA talent, in my opinion, improve drastically once they hit the NBA. Wiggins is prime example #1. Corpus, I respectfully disagree that leaving early is a "get rich quick" scheme. These kids have played their entire life to get to the NBA, and when presented the opportunity, they should take it. One extra year in college does nothing to better prepare them to be millionaires.
I would love to see Diallo in KU duds next year, but in his shoes, I would leave if I was assured I would be a first round pick.
What I don't agree with is that it's somehow bad for a kid like Diallo, or almost all OAD's, to leave early. I don't believe for a minute that OAD's who flame out in the NBA do so because they leave college early. I believe they were never going to make it, and they left before their lack of talent was discovered and overshadowed their potential. They made a few bucks by getting at least a couple years of NBA money (Selby).
Those who actually have NBA talent, in my opinion, improve drastically once they hit the NBA. Wiggins is prime example #1. Corpus, I respectfully disagree that leaving early is a "get rich quick" scheme. These kids have played their entire life to get to the NBA, and when presented the opportunity, they should take it. One extra year in college does nothing to better prepare them to be millionaires.
I would love to see Diallo in KU duds next year, but in his shoes, I would leave if I was assured I would be a first round pick.
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- HawkErrant
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8 years 7 months ago #7424
by HawkErrant
I agree AZ, but Diallo is simply not projecting as a first round pick. I just finished looking at the mock drafts on 6 sites -- NBADraft.net, Hoopshype*, DraftExpress, CBSSports, ESPN and NBA.com. Here are the 3 that had him listed at all. Note that some of the sites only list first round projections, so on those he might be listed on their unpublished "second 30".
NBA.com: 18
Hoopshype: 21
DraftExpress:36
Comments:
NBA.com Projected #18: undependable play once he was cleared, but athleticsim, size and potential on defense makes him a very intriguing prospect. It would not be a surprise if he had a big drop. (Bolding mine - HE)
Hoopshype Projected #21: his lack of playing time has put doubt into scout's minds about his whether he's worth taking in the mid to late first round. He was a near unanimous Top 5 player in his class and dominated practices in front of scouts, not to mention receiving MVP in multiple high-profile High School All American showcase games. With Kansas' stable of frontcourt horses, Diallo has been the odd man out. Whether or not he could have contributed more and seen more playing time is open to debate, but his status as a Top 25 pick has become a fluid situation. (Bolding mine - HE)
DraftExpress projected #36: Here's the link , they write a lot, with this near the end: Diallo is still a long ways away from putting it all together on the defensive end, as he lacks experience in a serious way and does not possess great fundamentals or awareness at this stage. Diallo plays off his instincts quite a bit here as well, being susceptible to biting on fakes, rotating wildly for blocks, and fouling at a very high rate (7.8 times per-40 minutes). It will take him some time to learn the concepts of NBA half-court defenses, and adding strength will also be a major priority in the long term, as he has a tendency to get pushed around with his lack of bulk. (Bolding mine - HE)
Mario had better write ups when he went early, was projected as late first round, but dropped to early 2nd round. That does not bode well for Diallo.
If he does well in the combine and the teams that express interest are those that will be drafting late in R1 -- i.e., the better teams unless the pick was acquired in a trade -- he may get lucky and go R1 with a quality club. But even if he does not see things breaking that way for him, he might stay in the draft on the off chance of being picked 31-60 and working his way onto a team. Or he could just go play overseas if he does not get drafted. He is not a US kid that might be leery of going overseas if the NBA didn't work out for him.
I've got a gut feeling we will not see him play in AFH next year. It's too bad, because unless he gets R1, I really think his best option is developing another year at KU, still one of the best big man developing programs in the country.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
AZhawk87 wrote: I would love to see Diallo in KU duds next year, but in his shoes, I would leave if I was assured I would be a first round pick.
I agree AZ, but Diallo is simply not projecting as a first round pick. I just finished looking at the mock drafts on 6 sites -- NBADraft.net, Hoopshype*, DraftExpress, CBSSports, ESPN and NBA.com. Here are the 3 that had him listed at all. Note that some of the sites only list first round projections, so on those he might be listed on their unpublished "second 30".
NBA.com: 18
Hoopshype: 21
DraftExpress:36
Comments:
NBA.com Projected #18: undependable play once he was cleared, but athleticsim, size and potential on defense makes him a very intriguing prospect. It would not be a surprise if he had a big drop. (Bolding mine - HE)
Hoopshype Projected #21: his lack of playing time has put doubt into scout's minds about his whether he's worth taking in the mid to late first round. He was a near unanimous Top 5 player in his class and dominated practices in front of scouts, not to mention receiving MVP in multiple high-profile High School All American showcase games. With Kansas' stable of frontcourt horses, Diallo has been the odd man out. Whether or not he could have contributed more and seen more playing time is open to debate, but his status as a Top 25 pick has become a fluid situation. (Bolding mine - HE)
DraftExpress projected #36: Here's the link , they write a lot, with this near the end: Diallo is still a long ways away from putting it all together on the defensive end, as he lacks experience in a serious way and does not possess great fundamentals or awareness at this stage. Diallo plays off his instincts quite a bit here as well, being susceptible to biting on fakes, rotating wildly for blocks, and fouling at a very high rate (7.8 times per-40 minutes). It will take him some time to learn the concepts of NBA half-court defenses, and adding strength will also be a major priority in the long term, as he has a tendency to get pushed around with his lack of bulk. (Bolding mine - HE)
Mario had better write ups when he went early, was projected as late first round, but dropped to early 2nd round. That does not bode well for Diallo.
If he does well in the combine and the teams that express interest are those that will be drafting late in R1 -- i.e., the better teams unless the pick was acquired in a trade -- he may get lucky and go R1 with a quality club. But even if he does not see things breaking that way for him, he might stay in the draft on the off chance of being picked 31-60 and working his way onto a team. Or he could just go play overseas if he does not get drafted. He is not a US kid that might be leery of going overseas if the NBA didn't work out for him.
I've got a gut feeling we will not see him play in AFH next year. It's too bad, because unless he gets R1, I really think his best option is developing another year at KU, still one of the best big man developing programs in the country.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- AZhawk87
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8 years 7 months ago #7427
by AZhawk87
HE, you're absolutely right. First round is not a given for Diallo.
However, I've been in the NBA gyms when college kids (and I'm old enough to have watched high school kids) work out for teams. Once they see his speed, energy, and how he attacks the rim, his stock will rise. I'm sure he is a beast in drills, and NBA workouts are limited to four people, so his lack of experience/knowledge of the 5v5 game won't be as apparent.
However, I've been in the NBA gyms when college kids (and I'm old enough to have watched high school kids) work out for teams. Once they see his speed, energy, and how he attacks the rim, his stock will rise. I'm sure he is a beast in drills, and NBA workouts are limited to four people, so his lack of experience/knowledge of the 5v5 game won't be as apparent.
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