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Rock Chalk Talk: Basketball
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
Anything pertaining to basketball: college, pro, HS, recruiting, TV coverage
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8 years 7 months ago #7347
by Kong
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Well I feared Nova for just this type of game. A lot of folks are saying that Perry didn’t get enough touches (my interpretation of their often heated comments). There is a reason for that. Nova did a masterful job of applying defense to the entry pass at such a high level that it allowed Perry to be covered one on one. No need to double team him or work up a scheme to defend him if he can’t get the ball. That was a wonderful piece of coaching and execution by his players. They had the tools to do it and did it,Nova’s guards made it nearly impossible for the entry pass to happen. We would have had to pass on blind faith and that was never going to happen.
Why am I reminded about fools gold. We were about as cold from the three as possible. We had quite a few open three point shots that were horribly missed. Seldon and Mason couldn’t hit the ocean standing on the deck of the Titanic AFTER hitting the iceberg. I believe that this will actually hurt next years team as it did nothing but reinforce the perception of the three point shot as fools gold for Self.
The only guy who could make a three and appeared to have both the eye and the energy got into foul trouble early on and it hurt us the entire game. The fouls against Graham were killers. But again, it is only because nobody else was hitting the long ball and punishing Nova for their game plan. Had Seldon and Mason hit their average from deep, this would all have been a non-issue.Except for Graham. That man has ice in his veins and showed up big time. I could complain about the officiating for quite a while. The most impact was on Graham. Nova had reason to be upset as well, but the impact on our one impact player of the night was tremendous. The phantom calls took Graham out of his aggressive game in the first half. We started out aggressive and on a roll only to have some calls go against us and turn the tide.
Nova jumped a lot of our standard plays (the handoff after the inbounds play comes immediately to mind) and you have to credit Wright for that. But we countered in the second half with some nice inbounds plays leading to easy baskets. That is a credit to Self adjusting.
In the end, KU had a great year. 12 straight, WUG championship, Maui championship, Big XII tournament championship, and an Elite Eight run. This has been a true team. Some really fine kids out there representing KU. A good year overall, but sure wish it had continued a few more games, not so much for me, but for them (Though I would have enjoyed the heck out of it too.) This was a team that I really enjoyed. I liked all the players as people too. I cannot say that I have felt that way about some of the other players we have had.
At the end of the day, Nova hit shots when they had to and KU did not. Sometimes it really is that simple
Finally. Dave put in one heck of an effort to give folks a place to vent, exalt, cheer, commiserate and generally hang out. I hope folks appreciate all he has done for them.
Peace and here is to next year as KU once again reloads and goes for a historic 13th.
Why am I reminded about fools gold. We were about as cold from the three as possible. We had quite a few open three point shots that were horribly missed. Seldon and Mason couldn’t hit the ocean standing on the deck of the Titanic AFTER hitting the iceberg. I believe that this will actually hurt next years team as it did nothing but reinforce the perception of the three point shot as fools gold for Self.
The only guy who could make a three and appeared to have both the eye and the energy got into foul trouble early on and it hurt us the entire game. The fouls against Graham were killers. But again, it is only because nobody else was hitting the long ball and punishing Nova for their game plan. Had Seldon and Mason hit their average from deep, this would all have been a non-issue.Except for Graham. That man has ice in his veins and showed up big time. I could complain about the officiating for quite a while. The most impact was on Graham. Nova had reason to be upset as well, but the impact on our one impact player of the night was tremendous. The phantom calls took Graham out of his aggressive game in the first half. We started out aggressive and on a roll only to have some calls go against us and turn the tide.
Nova jumped a lot of our standard plays (the handoff after the inbounds play comes immediately to mind) and you have to credit Wright for that. But we countered in the second half with some nice inbounds plays leading to easy baskets. That is a credit to Self adjusting.
In the end, KU had a great year. 12 straight, WUG championship, Maui championship, Big XII tournament championship, and an Elite Eight run. This has been a true team. Some really fine kids out there representing KU. A good year overall, but sure wish it had continued a few more games, not so much for me, but for them (Though I would have enjoyed the heck out of it too.) This was a team that I really enjoyed. I liked all the players as people too. I cannot say that I have felt that way about some of the other players we have had.
At the end of the day, Nova hit shots when they had to and KU did not. Sometimes it really is that simple
Finally. Dave put in one heck of an effort to give folks a place to vent, exalt, cheer, commiserate and generally hang out. I hope folks appreciate all he has done for them.
Peace and here is to next year as KU once again reloads and goes for a historic 13th.
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8 years 7 months ago #7354
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
Rather well ordered for being randomly taken from a cluttered source! 
Well ordered, indeed! Thanks, Kong!
Well ordered, indeed! Thanks, Kong!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- Senex68
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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #7355
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
"A lot of folks are saying that Perry didn’t get enough touches (my interpretation of their often heated comments)."
Actually, what a lot of 'folks' are saying is that Perry played horribly. I think that the results bear out the perception.
"Nova’s guards made it nearly impossible for the entry pass to happen. We would have had to pass on blind faith and that was never going to happen."
If you are perceptive enough to have noticed that we were having tremendous difficulty getting the ball to Perry under the basket, do you think that Self noticed too? If he did, why didn't he change the team's approach and move Perry out to the 3 point line and use him to create openings or even shoot the odd 3? Is it possible that Self simply couldn't/wouldn't adapt to another coach's strategy, which was clearly working? Tell us why Self did not alter his approach during the game.
"We were about as cold from the three as possible."
Nope. We shot 6-22. Villanova shot 4-18. I'm not sure that 4-18 is "as cold as possible," but it was certainly a worse shooting percentage than we had.
Forget about "Fool's Gold." We lost the game because of turnovers. It's that simple. And almost all of them were the result of carelessness. Our guys were not focused for a good portion of the game, and they were nervous as hell. If we turned the ball over 5 or 6 fewer times, we win the game easily. The coaching was inadequate, and the players were not up to par. We beat ourselves, and Self did not adjust. And Villanova did, in fact, double Ellis most of the time. They left Lucas alone and because Perry never really got the ball outside of 10 feet, they never had to change their approach. Perry did move away from the basket to set screens, but immediately dove back to the interior, to no avail. We played excellent defense, by the way. We did as "masterful" a job of defending them, and they did defending us. They just didn't turn the ball over as many times. And I reviewed every one of the turnovers. Virtually every one was caused by nothing other than carelessness.
Actually, what a lot of 'folks' are saying is that Perry played horribly. I think that the results bear out the perception.
"Nova’s guards made it nearly impossible for the entry pass to happen. We would have had to pass on blind faith and that was never going to happen."
If you are perceptive enough to have noticed that we were having tremendous difficulty getting the ball to Perry under the basket, do you think that Self noticed too? If he did, why didn't he change the team's approach and move Perry out to the 3 point line and use him to create openings or even shoot the odd 3? Is it possible that Self simply couldn't/wouldn't adapt to another coach's strategy, which was clearly working? Tell us why Self did not alter his approach during the game.
"We were about as cold from the three as possible."
Nope. We shot 6-22. Villanova shot 4-18. I'm not sure that 4-18 is "as cold as possible," but it was certainly a worse shooting percentage than we had.
Forget about "Fool's Gold." We lost the game because of turnovers. It's that simple. And almost all of them were the result of carelessness. Our guys were not focused for a good portion of the game, and they were nervous as hell. If we turned the ball over 5 or 6 fewer times, we win the game easily. The coaching was inadequate, and the players were not up to par. We beat ourselves, and Self did not adjust. And Villanova did, in fact, double Ellis most of the time. They left Lucas alone and because Perry never really got the ball outside of 10 feet, they never had to change their approach. Perry did move away from the basket to set screens, but immediately dove back to the interior, to no avail. We played excellent defense, by the way. We did as "masterful" a job of defending them, and they did defending us. They just didn't turn the ball over as many times. And I reviewed every one of the turnovers. Virtually every one was caused by nothing other than carelessness.
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
Last Edit: 8 years 7 months ago by Senex68.
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8 years 7 months ago #7357
by Kong
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Would that I cared enough to be surprised by your complete lack of insight.
But just to point out one of the many things you are wrong about I will point to the three point shooting. I said we were cold with the exception of Graham. You then give our totals which include Graham. Without Graham we were 1 - 13. I would say that was cold from the three point iine.
It clearly shows that you have no interest in ever addressing anything I write with any sort of neutrality. And people wonder why I don't post here any more.
Sheesh what a waste of time and space
But just to point out one of the many things you are wrong about I will point to the three point shooting. I said we were cold with the exception of Graham. You then give our totals which include Graham. Without Graham we were 1 - 13. I would say that was cold from the three point iine.
It clearly shows that you have no interest in ever addressing anything I write with any sort of neutrality. And people wonder why I don't post here any more.
Sheesh what a waste of time and space
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- Senex68
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8 years 7 months ago #7359
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
"We were about as cold from the three as possible."
I'm not really certain what you are referring to, but I quoted you and then commented. The quote from your post is repeated above. Do you deny writing it? If you did actually write it, I think it is fair to assume that you meant it. Ergo, my comment went to your comment. Now if you really want to challenge my statements, it would be better if you actually paid attention to what you posted, not what you would have liked to post, or what you thought you posted.
I am also mystified by your attempt to criticize my post by suggesting that I never address anything you write "with any degree of neutrality." Actually, that is a fair and accurate statement. Perhaps a reminder as to what "neutral" means will help you a bit today. Neutrality is defined as "absence of decided views, expression, or strong feeling." I don't believe that 'neutrality' is the point of a chat board. Do you? I remain mystified.
Given that your one example of the "many things I was wrong about" is, in fact, wrong, perhaps you could enlighten us as to my other errors. I am always looking for self improvement, and perhaps you can help me. Thanks in advance.
And I do want to mention that asserting that I have a "complete lack of insight" is unkind, And I believe, incorrect. But perhaps I'm wrong?
I'm not really certain what you are referring to, but I quoted you and then commented. The quote from your post is repeated above. Do you deny writing it? If you did actually write it, I think it is fair to assume that you meant it. Ergo, my comment went to your comment. Now if you really want to challenge my statements, it would be better if you actually paid attention to what you posted, not what you would have liked to post, or what you thought you posted.
I am also mystified by your attempt to criticize my post by suggesting that I never address anything you write "with any degree of neutrality." Actually, that is a fair and accurate statement. Perhaps a reminder as to what "neutral" means will help you a bit today. Neutrality is defined as "absence of decided views, expression, or strong feeling." I don't believe that 'neutrality' is the point of a chat board. Do you? I remain mystified.
Given that your one example of the "many things I was wrong about" is, in fact, wrong, perhaps you could enlighten us as to my other errors. I am always looking for self improvement, and perhaps you can help me. Thanks in advance.
And I do want to mention that asserting that I have a "complete lack of insight" is unkind, And I believe, incorrect. But perhaps I'm wrong?
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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- Kong
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8 years 7 months ago #7360
by Kong
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I am sorry. Complete lack insight and pompousness
Take things out of context and then claim to address the topic is disingenuous and frankly your normal approach to me.
Keep it up Senex. I am done with you and this place for a while. You should feel so proud
Take things out of context and then claim to address the topic is disingenuous and frankly your normal approach to me.
Keep it up Senex. I am done with you and this place for a while. You should feel so proud
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8 years 7 months ago #7371
by LSHawk
nfm
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8 years 7 months ago #7378
by HawkErrant
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
I disagree with both you and Senex on this point.
To paraphrase, you have to make enough shots to win. Nova did, KU didn't.
Self's coaching was more than adequate. Our players executed extremely well on defense, shutting down what had been a high scoring Nova offense, but failed to execute when KU was on offense. Terrible turnovers and even more importantly, missing wide open shots that our guys have been making all year made the difference. If Frank and Wayne combined to go just 3-12 instead of 1-12 from 3, KU is in the lead late, KU is defending instead of giving up 8 points at the FT line fouling 4 times in the last :33 hoping that Nova will miss their FTs, and we aren't having this conversation.
To paraphrase, you have to make enough shots to win. Nova did, KU didn't.
Self's coaching was more than adequate. Our players executed extremely well on defense, shutting down what had been a high scoring Nova offense, but failed to execute when KU was on offense. Terrible turnovers and even more importantly, missing wide open shots that our guys have been making all year made the difference. If Frank and Wayne combined to go just 3-12 instead of 1-12 from 3, KU is in the lead late, KU is defending instead of giving up 8 points at the FT line fouling 4 times in the last :33 hoping that Nova will miss their FTs, and we aren't having this conversation.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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- replayloungehawk
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8 years 7 months ago #7381
by replayloungehawk
Kong, I read your post and thought it provided good input. So I wouldn't worry what anyone else said.
This board is weird sometimes. It's like a strange clique. You can post something that you really think has value. Someone will either try and rip you apart or no one responds at all. The latter happens to me most often.
I do post on here from time to time but more often just read this silly site daily. I'm perplexed at how people attack others on here and don't just read it as having a conversation with other Jayhawk fans that absolutely love this team.
This board is weird sometimes. It's like a strange clique. You can post something that you really think has value. Someone will either try and rip you apart or no one responds at all. The latter happens to me most often.
I do post on here from time to time but more often just read this silly site daily. I'm perplexed at how people attack others on here and don't just read it as having a conversation with other Jayhawk fans that absolutely love this team.
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8 years 7 months ago #7383
by Wheatstate Gal
Thanks, replay. 
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8 years 7 months ago #7385
by Hawknmo
RKCKJHK!!!
Completely on board with Senex here. Use whatever verbiage you want....inadequate might not be my choice, I'd go with stubborn, HCBS appeared to make no real adjustment to the crowding of Perry in the lane or Wayne's belief that the next three was going in. We can all agree that for the majority of games if you go in with the "we make them play our game" mentality your winning percentage will look pretty good assuming you have the talent. HCBS has that in spades and his total win percentage reflects that. But on the rare occasion that your way isn't working you can either adjust or hold firm to your beliefs and hope for the best. IMHO HCBS went for the latter last night. No one is calling for his job. No one thinks hes an idiot. But like all humans HCBS is fallible and some true believing, crimson and blue bleeding, AFH nuts ocassionally differ with his choices and point that out.
RKCKJHK!!!
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- Senex68
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8 years 7 months ago #7389
by Senex68
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
I would like to make a few comments about my comments.
1. I did not 'attack' anyone.
2. I did not 'rip into' anyone.
3. I did not make any personal comments.
4. What I did do was point out my areas of disagreement with a post.
5. And then what I did was respond to his personal attack on me.
I have disagreed with many of you this year, and I'm sure than many of you have disagreed with me on one or more occasions. A forum like this is not, I repeat NOT, a place to attack each other, but it is, and I repeat, it IS, a place where ideas are presented, and critiqued. It is my right, and the right of every poster, to debate ideas, theories, etc., not pretend that we are all incapable of posting something that might be even a little bit incorrect. If we spent our time telling each other how wonderful every post is, and how wonderful every poster is, we'd all have quit by now, bored to tears with the unenlightened blather we'd be posting and reading.
I am not afraid to put my thoughts out here, in public, open to all for a critique, a criticism, or simply a 'thumbs down.' When I say something stupid, or just plain wrong, I hope that someone will jump on it and correct me. That is why I do this. I don't need to see my name applauded for my obvious genius in order to have a good day.
All I ask is that you actually read my words, and try to understand them. Don't skim and then criticize. Read it and then criticize, but realize I'm not a passive guy, but one who loves to debate. Some find debate offensive, but not I.
Sorry if this wasted a few minutes of your time, but I absolutely hate being hammered for something I did not do. If I screw up, fine, but if you take a few minutes to re-read my response to Kong's original post, you will find nothing personal or offensive or even aggressive. I'll leave it at that.
1. I did not 'attack' anyone.
2. I did not 'rip into' anyone.
3. I did not make any personal comments.
4. What I did do was point out my areas of disagreement with a post.
5. And then what I did was respond to his personal attack on me.
I have disagreed with many of you this year, and I'm sure than many of you have disagreed with me on one or more occasions. A forum like this is not, I repeat NOT, a place to attack each other, but it is, and I repeat, it IS, a place where ideas are presented, and critiqued. It is my right, and the right of every poster, to debate ideas, theories, etc., not pretend that we are all incapable of posting something that might be even a little bit incorrect. If we spent our time telling each other how wonderful every post is, and how wonderful every poster is, we'd all have quit by now, bored to tears with the unenlightened blather we'd be posting and reading.
I am not afraid to put my thoughts out here, in public, open to all for a critique, a criticism, or simply a 'thumbs down.' When I say something stupid, or just plain wrong, I hope that someone will jump on it and correct me. That is why I do this. I don't need to see my name applauded for my obvious genius in order to have a good day.
All I ask is that you actually read my words, and try to understand them. Don't skim and then criticize. Read it and then criticize, but realize I'm not a passive guy, but one who loves to debate. Some find debate offensive, but not I.
Sorry if this wasted a few minutes of your time, but I absolutely hate being hammered for something I did not do. If I screw up, fine, but if you take a few minutes to re-read my response to Kong's original post, you will find nothing personal or offensive or even aggressive. I'll leave it at that.
"When you have a ruling class that doesn’t believe in — or even much like — the fundamental values of the nations it rules, things tend to work out poorly.”
Glenn Reynolds
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- replayloungehawk
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8 years 7 months ago #7398
by replayloungehawk
Thanks for the clarification Senex. I do appreciate your input and actually look for it after a loss. Do I always agree? Of course not. I have my own opinions. But it's still valued input. Same with Kong. There are a handful of posters on here I look to read after a loss...
Enjoy the off season. I'll see you all next year.
Enjoy the off season. I'll see you all next year.
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