Not prepared...

LKF_HAWK wrote: HE. 2-6 in Elite Eight is not a flattering stat. It is almost exact opposite of 7-2 record in Sweet 16. HCBS has to be asking himself wtf.

I know the stat, I posted it myself earlier.

You can bet he knows it, too, and better than either of us.

And I'm sure he is asking himself "WTF?"

You don't get to be good at ANYTHING without examining what and how you are doing what you are doing, and trying to get better over time.

And note that your response did not answer my questions.

LSHawk wrote: Well, I didn't say I want HCBS "gone." I said I want there to be a review. He is ultimately accountable and he has to produce more than league championships. This was another post season failure.

I replied:

Who's going to do this review?

Who knows enough about running a CBB program to properly evaluate his work, and provide him guidance on how to improve on what he is already so good at doing?

What is the gold standard they will use to grade him? John Wooden? Coach K? The latter is at least more realistic, but it's still ridiculous.

We have one of the best MBB coaches in the game today.
He's realistically at least as good as everybody coaching today that is not named Krzyzewski.

When the day comes that he leaves Kansas, and one day it will, none of us will be happy about it.

To which you replied:

LKF_HAWK wrote: HE. 2-6 in Elite Eight is not a flattering stat. It is almost exact opposite of 7-2 record in Sweet 16. HCBS has to be asking himself wtf.

To which I responded:
I know the stat, I posted it myself earlier.

You can bet he knows it, too, and better than either of us.

And I'm sure he is asking himself "WTF?"

You don't get to be good at ANYTHING without examining what and how you are doing what you are doing, and trying to get better over time.

And note that your response did not answer my questions.

Unfortunately the board programming bumped my reply to you to page 2 of the thread instead of under your reply, creating confusion with the separation.

LKF_HAWK wrote: The University Athletic Dept should review HCBS and his performance.

I measure HCBS against Roy, squid and Izzo. HCBS has 1 NC, thank you Mario, and 2 FFs. Roy 7FFs, 2NCs and praying the Irish save us from another Roy NC. Squid has 1NC, 6FF and Izzo 1 NC and 7 FF. HCBS just doesn't have the tourney numbers in my opinion.

You think HCBS 's tourney performance would be acceptable at UNC, Duke, UK, UCLA or other schools. KU measures success in FFs not EEs and frankly HCBS has missed 4 times now as a #1 seed.

HCBS is KUMBB CEO and bucks stops with him, and he will be the first to acknowledge that.

Sorry HE just bummed out, can't say KU lost to a better team tonight and that is hard to swallow

YOU and other spoiled fans like you measure success ONLY in FFs.
You have been spoiled rotten by Larry (who got 2 FFs in 5 years at KU) and Roy (who didn't get his 3rd and 4th FF until his 14th and 15th seasons at KU, and then only because of Kirk, Nick and for one year, Drew) and don't deserve the good fortune you have had with Bill Self to date.

I can guarantee you that the KUAD administration factors FFs in t o the KUMBB coach's performance, but FFs and NCs are the ULTIMATE success, not the day-to-day, year in, year out success that keeps the money coming in (read "the business a going concern").

Yeah, see my response in the other thread about how Phog Allen measures up to your standards.

After Phog retired and Wilt left, KU was an afterthought nationally in hoops for years because of Dick Harp and then, for all but two years, Ted Owens. Although there were 4 Top 10 Final season rankings from 1958 through 1983, there were only 2 FFs.

Larry brought the program back to prominence, and was actually probably our best coach ever, but he didn't stay long enough to prove it.

Now, three of the top coaches out of the 60 some in the Power 5 conferences are your "standard"?

So throwing in K, that means even you have to acknowledge Self is at least the 5th best coach in the country.

That's great company to keep.

The Administration is not going to do what you or LS or anyone suggest because it is LUDICROUS.

They know exactly how great he is, and won't waste their time trying to tell him how to do what they can't do (one of them would be pulling in the millions instead if they could do it).

Your thoughts are unrealistic and unbusiness like, driven by your pain at your team losing, and at the embarrassment of having to face your coworkers and friends after the loss.

You didn't do a damn thing except be a fan of the team and the coaches who let you down because they lost their last game when you had such high hopes for them giving you the chance to brag "My team is #1!" to everyone. Get over yourself. It's hurting them a hell of a lot more than it's hurting you. Swallow your pride and show your face at work on Monday.

Self and his team will.

LSHawk wrote: With all due respect, HE, if I and LFK are being too negative, I would suggest that some of your comments are too personal. No one called your comments/suggestions "ludicrous." Anyway, I appreciate the openness of this board and the freedom to respectfully express my opinions.

To answer your question about who would conduct a review, I was more generally suggesting that it is the head coach who is highly paid and is highly responsible for the success of the program. There is probably no one, presently, who could do a better overall job than HCBS. I'm just saying the expectations are and should be very, very high...

I apologize for the harsh way in which I expressed my thoughts, but not for the underlying ideas I expressed.

Let me clarify that in my 60+ years I have yet to meet a highly successful person in any field of endeavor who was not always looking at ways to improve what he or she does. Do you really think that this does not happen at KU after every season is over? Even in 2008, I remember the stories that immediately after winning the NC Self and the staff were talking about looking at what they did, good and bad, to help figure out how to repeat.

And IIRC our highly paid coach is at the helm of the second most lucrative college hoops program in the business (second only to Louisville IIRC). Clearly he is doing very well in most areas to have a product that is in such demand and is so lucrative.

And I agree that expectations are and should be very high for one of the most historic programs in the country, although I will point out again they were not for most of two decades until Larry Brown was hired just before I finished my KU graduate degree. He and Roy and now Bill have sent our expectations into the stratosphere, year in and year out.

While I agree that FFs are important, they are not the sole measure of a program's and a coach's success. Regular season performance is also important, especially in keeping the business lucrative and giving it the best chance to succeed in the postseason. Bill has been coaching for 23 years, 13 at KU. In that time he's been to the E8 8 times, 6 in those 13 KU years. Almost Every Other Year at KU. That is an accomplishment. His 2-6 record -- 2-4 with KU -- once he gets there leaves everyone unhappy, especially him, but at least he is knocking on that door almost every other year as compared to not passing the Sweet 16 for almost a decade.

Let's compare him to Roy as a standard, comparing Roy's KU time to Bill's to keep the timing and other factors similar.
Roy won 9 conference titles in his 15 years at KU.
Roy never lost in R1 of the NCAAs.
Roy went to the E8 just once in the 8 years from 1994 thru 2001, never getting further than the Sweet 16 in 7 years.
Roy was only in 5 E8s during his 15 years at KU, the last two in years 14 and 15.*
Roy won 4 of them to make the FF, but again he didn't get his 4th and 5th FFs until his 14th and 15h seasons at KU. I was hoping Bill would beat him to those, too. He can still tie Roy for that, although it will be even harder to do now.
Roy never won a title at KU.*
*Roy's been in 7 E8s in his 13 years @UNC, one more than Bill in the same 13 years at KU. Roy has won 4 of them compared to Bill's 2, and so far 2 NCs to Bill's 1. Biggest difference to my mind -- the recruiting advantage @UNC. Bill always says that over time better talent wins out.

So comparing KU careers, we see that Bill is ahead of where Roy was in almost every area -- to include NCs -- except FFs.

Yes, I want more. Just like you and every other KU fan, I hate seeing them sidelined so early.
.
We are all a little emotionally raw because we love our Jayhawks and are once again stinging at them leaving the Dance short of the goal of getting to the FF and winning it all. I understand that. But don't ignore what Bill *has* accomplished at KU. By any standard, he has been great. Not the greatest, but certainly one of the best in the business. Hopefully, like Roy, his next 13 years will be much more rewarding than his first.

Roy went to 1 E8 (2 seed in the West in 1996 in Denver v 4 seed Syracuse) from 1994-2001, never getting past the S16 in the other 7 years in that time frame.