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KU really needs to perform this post-season

  • konza63
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8 years 8 months ago - 8 years 8 months ago #5479 by konza63
This has been one heck of a year for KU. First, we enjoyed the summer success in the WUG in Korea--demonstrating that we could play as a team (even with far less than our full fall-winter squad) and bring home the gold against some decent international competition. Then we had a solid non-conference season, followed by an initially rocky Big 12 campaign that then proceeded to flip into one of the most impressive KU runs through our conference in our entire 12-year run of successive championships. We conquered some seriously talented teams, featuring very diverse attacks, even though everyone was gunning for us and hoping to bring down the King of the Hill.

We now head into the post-season on a serious roll (11 straight), and as arguably the hottest, most battle-tested team in the country. We also have proven our ability to win some very tight, nail-biter type games, including in some very challenging road arenas. Given all of that, it's hard not to be super-excited for the team, and bullish on its chances for success in the Dance.

But now it gets "real." And that means that the Hawks now have to prove that their super-impressive Big 12 success wasn't an aberration, and that they can close out other teams when it matters most--in the post-season.

Whether we like it or not as KU fans (and we most certainly do not), KU has a negative national rep for post-season failure. That's the narrative outside of the KU fan base, sadly, and no amount of successive Big 12 championships is going to change that. The only thing that will change it is post-season success: flipping the script, as it were, by punctuating a new narrative or counter-narrative.

I encountered this "failure narrative" yet again (albeit quite accidentally) Saturday night, among a bunch of "basketball dads" in northern VA who hold allegiances to schools that harbor no ill will toward KU (Virginia, Maryland, Michigan, et al.). We were talking about doing a tourney bracket for our son's team members, and the coach asked me if I tended to vote with my heart (for KU) each time. I said yes, it was hard not to. The Michigan guy (local in VA, but went to Michigan), who isn't known for being an ill-informed loudmouth, then piped up, saying "The only time I won a March Madness bracket contest was when I was playing with a bunch of Kansas fans. That's because they always have Kansas winning it all, but Kansas always loses. No offense, but that's just how it is--Kansas always loses."

Don't even get me started on what I wanted to say (or do) in response to this gibberish. I could've hit him upside the head with lots of stats and what-not to show that we actually aren't as bad as what the national narrative suggests. I could've brought up 2008, and noted that we were right back in the NC game in 2012. I could've talked about how any team that consistently gets ranked a 1 seed is going to encounter more than its fair share of upsets to a lesser seed. I could've trotted out the "injury bug" issue, Cliffgate, or whatever. But in the final analysis, it would've just been seen as a bunch of excuses. I would've come off as a thin-skinned, defensive KU fan (to the other dads), with scant chance of changing the narrative already implanted in their heads. And finally, it just wasn't worth wasting my time and personal social capital arguing with the guy in front of a room full of parents in that kind of social setting. Yet for the rest of the night, including as I nodded off to sleep, I couldn't escape the anger and disdain I felt for this guy, and more broadly for the narrative on the exceptional school and program that I--and all of us on this board--dearly love.

We can call the tourney a crapshoot all we want, but if we're going to be taken more seriously as an elite program, we need to register greater post-season success--which is what counts for the most in all sports at the end of each campaign. For KU, that starts with having a good post-season this year. The field has never been more wide open, there is no "elite" team standing in our way (like 2012), we just won the toughest conference in the land going away, we learned how to close out solid teams in the crunch, and we also proved that we can win in hostile environments on the road (which many tourney sites can morph into, given the David vs. Goliath syndrome that tends to engulf the tourney site arenas). Given all of that, I am hoping like crazy Coach Self and our guys get it done, and make a truly deep run this year. It's time to bury this "KU chokes" narrative once and for all, starting (hopefully) with the here and now: this post-season.

Some of you aren't going to like this "real talk" post, and I can almost predict those responses in advance. But this situation is real on a national scale (perception forming reality, even if we disagree with it)...and if we love our program and don't like seeing it sullied we really need to hope--with every fiber of our being--that KU can make some serious noise in the Dance this year, and in years ahead.

I wish we could bottle that attitude and loose-as-a-goose, playing-to-have-fun, step-on-their-neck performance that this team exhibited in Austin, for if we play like that on the biggest of stages over the next month, I have zero doubt that we will be the only team left standing come April 4th.

Here's to our beloved Hawks obliterating all of the doubters and negative Nancy non-KU fans out there. Go get 'em, boys!

Rock Chalk...

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 8 years 8 months ago by konza63.
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8 years 8 months ago #5481 by Illhawk
All the combos mean a great season 1-1 in KC then 6-0 . BINGO I'll get another blue t-shirt .
2-1 in KC and 5-1, there to the end hopefully neither Kentucky nor North Carolina cutting down the nets.
3-0 but bounced on Saturday in Houston, let's see win Big XII regular season and tournament and make the Final Four, I could stand that,
again certain opponents would sting more than others.

I want this bunch of kids to at least experience a Final Four. The work started a long time ago and it is time to close out the deal.
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8 years 8 months ago #5497 by JRhawk
Konza - 3rd try to get a post to take. Glad you didn't go postal on the other dad. Some things are more important than basketball.
I agree with your 'real talk' comments. Need to do a lot more in NCAA tourney's if want national acclaim.

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8 years 8 months ago - 8 years 8 months ago #5557 by ATXJayhawk
Looking at the number of final 4 appearances among the blue bloods this decade; Kentucky has 3 final 4's and 1 championship, Duke has 1 final 4 and 1 championship, Kansas has 1 final 4, and North Carolina has 0 final 4's.

Outside of Jayhawk country the narrative that KU chokes in the tournament is widely held. I think most of that is due to the fact that we've lost to three mid major's this decade while being a high seed. In 2010 and 2011 we were the best team in the country all season, got #1 seeds, and lost to inferior programs. Thats a tough pill to swallow as a KU fan.

I looked up where KU ranked in Team Rankings predictive index the day before the 2010 and 2011 NCAA tournaments started. In both of those years we were the #1 ranked team. Their rankings only go back to 2007 and I found there were five teams that were ranked #1 in their rankings the day before the tournament started that didn't make the final 4. KU's 2010 and 2011 teams were two of those five. The others were 2007 North Carolina, 2013 Florida, and 2014 Louisville. Thats not a good list to be on. Our loss to WSU last year was expected as they were actually the better team with better numbers, better guard play, and better shooters.

This year feels like a completely different KU team than years past. We have great guard play, we don't have the tall center or pf to protect the paint like a Whithey, Robinson, Darnell, Darrell, and we shoot a high percentage of 2's and 3's. I always hear all the time that guard play wins you championships. I'd say we have a good shot this year with Frank, Devonte, and Wayne.

Crimson and blue looks so much better than burnt orange!!!
Last Edit: 8 years 8 months ago by ATXJayhawk.

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8 years 8 months ago #5559 by NotOstertag
It's funny that the "casual fan" tends to overwhelm the "invested fan" around this time of year and on other areas of the game.

Case in point: the call for a shorter shot clock. I've heard people who not only wanted the 30 second clock, but who want a 24 second clock just like the pros. These "fans" also tend to get stir crazy after the Super Bowl and before pitchers and catchers report to spring training. Since the NCAA heats up during that time, they wade in halfway through the season and really only pay attention to the post season. Meanwhile, "invested fans" who start paying attention in the fall are more likely to be less offended by watching a team play solid defense for an extended period of time, or a team take a little longer, make a few extra passes, and actually DEVELOP a good play in the half-court.

So to me, it's no surprise that the casual fan looks at the tournament as the be-all and end-all of the sport. And since this group is (unfortunately) influential, we need to find a way to shut them up.

I agree that KU has a reputation as chokers...not because of results, but by some of the teams who have knocked us out early. Meanwhile, teams like Duke, UNC and Kentucky....who have all missed the tournament during out streak...seem to get a pass.

Finally, there's the nature of the tournament itself. Unlike the NBA where they play a 7 game series and probably determine "the best team" 95% of the time, the one-and-out nature of the NCAA probably only successfully determines the "best team" 60%-70% of the time.

To me, "12 consecutive Big 12's and TWO NCs" sounds a lot better than "12 consecutive and ONE NC". I think this team has a great chance. Then again, the '96-'97 team, which held the #1 spot in the polls pretty much all season, only had 1 loss going into the NCAAs and was by far the best team in the nation, only to lose to Arizona in the sweet 16. So anything can and will happen.

Here's how I'm approaching the tournament:
>1st Weekend: enjoying all of the upsets, praying that we're not one of them.
>2nd Weekend: this is where the rubber meets the road. A loss on Thurs/Fri is a big disappointment. Can live with a loss on Sat/Sun under the right circumstances.
>Final four and beyond: at this point it's all gravy. The teams at this point are all pretty much equal, so there's no shame in getting eliminated at this point.

Anyway, IIRC that '97 team had some food poisoning or a flu bug hit the guys and it showed. So while the "casual fan" might see things like this a as a "choke" or "making excuses", the "invested fan" knows better.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot

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8 years 8 months ago #5561 by Riverhawk
Good info, sir. thanks for the breakdown! I think it's quite simple. Bill Self's record, especially during the regular season, is off the charts great.
Fewer home losses than Big 12 titles is staggering any way you look at it.
But...I understand the mindset of those who feel his teams will always step on a banana peel in the Big Dance. Because all too often with superior teams and talent they have done just that. No need in my mind for any more analysis.
I hope...really, really hope this year will be different. This team has progressed tremendously...but I still wonder which Wayne will show up? Is the rebounding good enough against a tough team like Michigan State? Can our guards stop dribble penetration better than they have? Will someone off the bench (Greene, Svi, Diallo?) step up when it matters? Will they make their free throws?
To my mind, a lot of legitimate questions, and as Self has said, the margin for error with this group is smaller than in years past.
But the dream never dies. Like many others, I assume, I am striding forward confidently, but still checking the ground for banana peels.

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8 years 8 months ago #5563 by HawkErrant

NotOstertag wrote: Anyway, IIRC that '97 team had some food poisoning or a flu bug hit the guys and it showed. So while the "casual fan" might see things like this a as a "choke" or "making excuses", the "invested fan" knows better.


Jerod Haase played the last half of the season with a broken wrist that never fully healed. He played thru pain every game and he couldn't shoot worth crap come tournament time. :dry:

Scot Pollard was playing on a broken foot. :pinch:

2 of our starting 5 operating at significantly less than 100%. :S

Haase will play through; Pollard stress fracture

Food poisoning :sick: -- that I do not recall, but it may be that Jerod's and Scot's situations blocked that out of my memory -- less salient.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"

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8 years 8 months ago #5564 by NotOstertag
I also thought that later it came out that Raef was ill and dehydrated for much of the game. I could be wrong, but "on paper" they were essentially "unbeatable" that year, with our only loss coming at Mizzou in a war. The team started the preseason as #2 and by early December were #1 and never gave it up until the loss to Arizona (my memory isn't that good..."thanks Wikipedia"). That team was truly dominant and simply encountered some bad luck. A bad day on the wrong day.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot

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