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Is it ever going to end

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7 years 9 months ago #10989 by mpeterson44
Another police matter involving KU basketball players. www.kansas.com/sports/college/article130423344.html

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7 years 9 months ago #10990 by konza63
Good grief!!!

Have we become MU? Miami U in its heyday?

What in the world is going on?

If half of this stuff is true, it speaks to lack of institutional control. Insufficient warning and punishment from the top (at the outset of the first or second incident) to set the tone and hopefully deter new incidents.

What do others think?

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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7 years 9 months ago #10992 by denster
same exact article in KC star. Just have to wait and see. Kind of odd they know who the student is when this info is protected by law. Maybe an off and on relationship? Sounds like someone knew of both , and leaked one after the other. The news has tried to contact the student and father and he declines to comment and her phone is disconnected. Where did they get her phone number? Just odd.
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7 years 9 months ago - 7 years 9 months ago #10993 by konza63
Leaving aside the very legit concerns about player behavior that I voiced earlier, another part of me is beginning to wonder about the steady stream of stories coming out of the KC Star.

Specifically, I have open questions about the authors' motivation, their background, and their objectivity. The last two were not done by the KU beat guys, Newell and Bedore, but instead by people I've never heard of. They are also regurgitating every other recent incident and alleged KU player transgression in every new article--which serves to give the inpresssion of the Wild West or inmates running the insane asylum at KU.

Lastly, I'm not an expert on the latest Title IX (is it?) regulations, but I have been led to believe that, once incidents like those reported are in the hands of the university, they remain confidential to protect all parties (presumably until or unless there are actual charges pursued on court?). If that's true, and I defer to people who know the new processes, then someone inside KU is leaking a steady stream of internal, confidential info to a source at the Star. Not only that, but Coach Self and others who might be able to talk about the incident(s) and perhaps balance out the picture are defenseless because they cannot do so. And that takes me back to my concern above about uncertain intent, background, and motivation.

Are the stories credible and fair game? Or do they constitute an intentional hachet job against KU?

I'd really like to have more information. But regardless, this is not an attempt by me to dismiss what appears to be an alarming set of trends and behaviors associated with the current team. Behaviors that obviously are distracting and threaten to take away from what should otherwise be a thrilling, memorable, and historic (13) season.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by konza63.
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7 years 9 months ago #10995 by Bayhawk

The end is nothing; the road is all.
-- Jules Michelet

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7 years 9 months ago #10996 by denster
I agree with you, but I know whoever is doing this is taking some pretty big risk. I know in healthcare it is a minimum of a $10000 fine. I have heard of a company being fined $250000 fine for loosing an iPad with patient information. You have situation where reporters are emailing victim's family and trying to call the victim, that's a bad breach. On top of that, due to federal law, the coach or university can't defend themselves. I don't like what the kids are doing at all, but in the end who is in the right. The victim may have been abused in the beginning and now being harassed for a story.
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7 years 9 months ago #10997 by denster
Sorry, doing this on my phone, thumbs aren't the best

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7 years 9 months ago #10998 by mpeterson44
This story Is now getting national news attention as it's now up on ESPN's main page. These incidents have a cumulative effect on how our program is perceived. It casts a dark cloud over a program that could be looked at as out of control by many. Sad day. I hope this all ends soon and we can get back to KU Basketball without all of the distractions. ROCK CHALK FOREVER!!
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7 years 9 months ago #10999 by konza63
Mellinger's take on the domestic violence allegations (not the vandalism, since it just came out) strike me as rational:

"Now, this is a bigger deal.

We don’t know if a police report was ever made, but the fact no charges were filed is why he’s playing.

Vick may have been “suspended” — he missed two games last season, though at the time Self said Vick was sick — but with no criminal charges, there was no further punishment that we know about.

University Title IX investigations are tricky. After the game last night, Self read from a prepared statement that essentially said he hasn’t been made aware of anything. It was, basically, a 95-word no comment.

Now, obviously I think he knows more than he’s letting on. But I do believe the university keeps as much of this away from coaches as possible, which calls into question a system in which the coach might not have all the information he might need to make a punishment.

Self is putting himself out there a bit on this, and that’s interesting for a lot of reasons. He is a wildly successful coach. After he retires, there will be a statue of him or something named after him at Allen Fieldhouse. He’ll be inducted to various Halls of Fame. He makes many millions of dollars.

He has, in other words, nothing to gain by sticking up for a player — especially, if we’re honest, a role player — unless he knows more of what happened than the portion of the story we know so far from Laura Bauer’s excellent reporting.

The fact that no criminal charges were filed gives Self room to do this. But I don’t think Self would let play Vick if he didn’t know something more. Self suspended Bragg when he was charged with violence against a woman, and let him back on the team after the prosecutor said surveillance video showed the woman should be charged instead.

This is a difficult needle to thread. A coach has to be aware of any appearance of being tolerant about domestic violence. But he also needs to be fair, and support his players when he can.

Here’s what I keep landing on: Self does not have a track record of being soft on things like this."

Read more here: www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-bl...9.html#storylink=cpy

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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7 years 9 months ago #11000 by denster
I hope it ends soon too, but I think that we will always potentially have something to distract the team. Let me think, there was Giddins, Lee had a domestic event or two, something was always going on with the twins, moriningstar had a dui, and those are fairly recent ones. Some of these kids come from fairly tough situations, and to change things would mean changing culture, that would be a quite a task. My hat goes off to the coaches in trying to manage these kids but nothing is perfect. Life is hard. If it means that some of these kids need to move along due to the fact they can't handle it, then so be it. Probably more has happened than can be told, it's not a cover up, just the law. KU is a great school and a great program, none of this changes that.
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7 years 9 months ago #11001 by konza63
I've gotten to the point in life where I don't give two $$$$$ what ESPN, Purps, or MethU folks say about KU. Haters are gonna hate. I have the utmost respect for Coach Self, and know that he is all but certain to be pursuing what he believes is the best course for the university, team, and individual players. I also know that he and other coaches are increasingly bound by a lot of regulations and gag orders that can seem off-putting to fans and critics, but I'm not going to be judge and jury over him without inside knowledge.

Hopefully it's all overblown or settled, and the team can just focus on their goals on the court.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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7 years 9 months ago #11002 by denster
Amen

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7 years 9 months ago #11003 by NotOstertag
Good points by everybody. Here's how this looks from the outside within the past couple weeks:

-reported rape at BBall dorm. Several players called in as witnesses.

-player busted with in drug charge and suspended.

-reports of a player who punched and kicked a woman last season.

-current reports of the same player trashing the same woman's car with blue chip one and done freshman likely involved.

This is just the past couple weeks folks. Granted I used language that put this in the worst light possible, but this is likely how it's being perceived by many.

On the flipside, we're in the hunt for a 13th straight title to tie a record that may never be matched, and we've got a team capable of going deep in March.

I'm really torn up about this. This is not KU, nor is it how I perceive HCBS as a leader.

So here's the million dollar question. If the worst case scenarios play out, are we ready to boot Vick, Bragg, and Jackson? Even if it costs us a "the streak" and a deep run in March? I'd HCBS doesn't punish these guys and it comes out that he should have, can we be truly proud of a 13th championship, or will it somehow be tainted?

I don't know, guys. I think most of us are the kinds of people who respect the reputation of the program over all. Are we willing to protect it if it means blowing a historic opportunity? I think I am, but hate being in this position.

"When I was a freshman, I remember Coach Naismith telling us how important it was to play good defense." - Mitch Lightfoot

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7 years 9 months ago - 7 years 9 months ago #11004 by konza63
The facts are woefully incomplete. Lots of assertions out there, but I want to see the police charges before jumping to conclusions.

The Star writers on this (both of whom have never done a KU story until now) are very busy pumping themselves and their stories on Twitter ("Breaking news!") and the Star is putting the latest on the front page as the top story. It could be solidly grounded, or it could be yellow journalism. We won't know until said police charges prove that there officially is (or isn't) wrong-doing.

I'm not saying let's sweep this under the rug, but I am saying let's wait until all sides of the story are put forth, and official charges are made, before we jump to conclusions. Or you can do what you want, but that's where I'm coming down.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by konza63.
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7 years 9 months ago #11005 by konza63
PS: And yes, the look for KU is horrible right now. All the more reason that this needs to get addressed, one way or the other. From a PR, image, and branding standpoint, I'm not sure that the university can afford to not address this due to Title IX privacy or investigative restrictions.

Ugh.

Double Ugh.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.

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7 years 9 months ago #11006 by konza63


These newbie Star reporters had better have their facts straight, or KU might come down on them like a ton of bricks. All the more so since the stories are being splashed all over the country, which leads to a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality in the court of (non-KU) public opinion.

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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7 years 9 months ago #11007 by konza63

“With kindest regards to Dr. Forrest C. Allen, the father of basketball coaching, from the father of the game.”

1936 inscription on the portrait of Dr. Naismith, displayed above Phog Allen's office desk at KU.
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7 years 9 months ago #11009 by HawkErrant
That sounds good, but just what does it mean? I could propose several possibilities here, but will choose not to further muddy the agua with my uninformed commentary.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad"
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7 years 9 months ago #11012 by JRhawk
I know Columbo always took forever to solve a case (and torment the perp in the process), but is Lawrence such a hotbed of crime that it takes two months and counting to solve a vandalism case??
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7 years 9 months ago - 7 years 9 months ago #11015 by DrJHawker
And it is very concerning. It also all seems really strange.
Last Edit: 7 years 9 months ago by DrJHawker.

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